Swa ta
09-21-2015 | 11:25 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
An awesome "bonus" that's MORE* than retro!
Huge "raises"** that are "industry leading"!
Awesome subsets that will increase our pay AND QOL ***
Massive GROWTH ****
* = less
** = Sub COLA
*** = we get to work even more for the same pay with less flexibility
**** = via interlining, err, codeshare.
09-21-2015 | 01:08 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Capt
Don't open scope.
Ladies and Gents
I'm a Delta guy but heed my warning. DO NOT GIVE ON SCOPE. If you open that door you will never ever get it shut again. Your scope is the holy grail of your contract. We made the mistake at Delta of allowing the RJs in over a decade ago. The line keeps moving, first its only 50 seats, then 70, then 76 seats and the numbers of RJs kept going up. Now we finally have a hard cap at 450 RJs at a time when the pendulum has swung and now they can't find enough pilots to staff them.
Now at the other end is the Joint Ventures. Delta has a JV with Air France/KLM, Virgin, GOL, as well as Virgin Australia, and I can't even remember who else. They violated the scope language of our contract and settled it with the pilots for 30 Million. $2500 per pilot approximately. A paltry sum for untold loss of movement and wide body jobs. There are no circuit breakers on scope. The company will violate it and make you grieve it later with a measly settlement that isn't even close to the actual cost.
Do yourselves, your careers, and each other a favor and don't ever open that section of your contract.
JMHO
Good luck to all of you.
I'm a Delta guy but heed my warning. DO NOT GIVE ON SCOPE. If you open that door you will never ever get it shut again. Your scope is the holy grail of your contract. We made the mistake at Delta of allowing the RJs in over a decade ago. The line keeps moving, first its only 50 seats, then 70, then 76 seats and the numbers of RJs kept going up. Now we finally have a hard cap at 450 RJs at a time when the pendulum has swung and now they can't find enough pilots to staff them.
Now at the other end is the Joint Ventures. Delta has a JV with Air France/KLM, Virgin, GOL, as well as Virgin Australia, and I can't even remember who else. They violated the scope language of our contract and settled it with the pilots for 30 Million. $2500 per pilot approximately. A paltry sum for untold loss of movement and wide body jobs. There are no circuit breakers on scope. The company will violate it and make you grieve it later with a measly settlement that isn't even close to the actual cost.
Do yourselves, your careers, and each other a favor and don't ever open that section of your contract.
JMHO
Good luck to all of you.
09-22-2015 | 12:28 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 0
From: 737 Right
There's a long time between now and when we vote. Right now it's an ignorance pool of opinions.
Everyone's afraid of PBS because of one sentence that says we'll agree to talk about it. GMAFB. No way PBS will pass a vote here, let the company talk all they want. I'd rather have them talking to us about it than just making up something on their own and trying to force it on us.
Codeshare and sec 1? If all you've done is read the TA then you really have no idea what sec 1 even means. Gonna need some time to digest that before I pull the pin. Already seen tons of dudes spout lies about this. I'm way sensitive to sec 1 changes, but let's not spout a bunch of crap.
There's plenty of time to hear the union SME's brief us on this thing. A lot will shake out between now and then.
And lets not forget, last TA the company sweetened the pot in mid vote! Can't wait to see what surprises they have up their sleeve!
I refuse to make up my mind until everyone's made their case.
Everyone's afraid of PBS because of one sentence that says we'll agree to talk about it. GMAFB. No way PBS will pass a vote here, let the company talk all they want. I'd rather have them talking to us about it than just making up something on their own and trying to force it on us.
Codeshare and sec 1? If all you've done is read the TA then you really have no idea what sec 1 even means. Gonna need some time to digest that before I pull the pin. Already seen tons of dudes spout lies about this. I'm way sensitive to sec 1 changes, but let's not spout a bunch of crap.
There's plenty of time to hear the union SME's brief us on this thing. A lot will shake out between now and then.
And lets not forget, last TA the company sweetened the pot in mid vote! Can't wait to see what surprises they have up their sleeve!
I refuse to make up my mind until everyone's made their case.
09-22-2015 | 03:57 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 397
1Seat,
Like you, I think PBS is a red herring that will never matter since there is no way this group will vote it in. I am not a part of the torch and pitchfork crowd.
I have, however, taken a very close look at the section one language. I went into it with an open mind and didn't want anyone to make my decision for me. It is, without a doubt, a danger to the career of anyone who has more than a few years left here. I urge you to also take a very close look at the loose way the language is written and to call your union rep. 19/22 reps are against this TA, but many voted yes to pass it on to the pilots so that we could vote and send a message.
Sounds like you are taking the time to educate yourself and that's a good thing. I would be careful, though, about listening to the SWAPA sales job. They are walking a thin line between the message they really want to send (send this thing back in a flaming bag of poo) and what the mediator wants them to send. They can't muddy the waters and tell us how to vote, which is why they are saying to "do what is best for you and your family".
I know what's best for my family, and that is for dad to have a job and maybe an upgrade sometime this career.
Like you, I think PBS is a red herring that will never matter since there is no way this group will vote it in. I am not a part of the torch and pitchfork crowd.
I have, however, taken a very close look at the section one language. I went into it with an open mind and didn't want anyone to make my decision for me. It is, without a doubt, a danger to the career of anyone who has more than a few years left here. I urge you to also take a very close look at the loose way the language is written and to call your union rep. 19/22 reps are against this TA, but many voted yes to pass it on to the pilots so that we could vote and send a message.
Sounds like you are taking the time to educate yourself and that's a good thing. I would be careful, though, about listening to the SWAPA sales job. They are walking a thin line between the message they really want to send (send this thing back in a flaming bag of poo) and what the mediator wants them to send. They can't muddy the waters and tell us how to vote, which is why they are saying to "do what is best for you and your family".
I know what's best for my family, and that is for dad to have a job and maybe an upgrade sometime this career.
09-22-2015 | 05:08 AM
#27
Banned
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 0
On top of industry leading codeshare, we get:
An awesome "bonus" that's MORE* than retro!
Huge "raises"** that are "industry leading"!
Awesome subsets that will increase our pay AND QOL ***
Massive GROWTH ****
* = less
** = Sub COLA
*** = we get to work even more for the same pay with less flexibility
**** = via interlining, err, codeshare.
An awesome "bonus" that's MORE* than retro!
Huge "raises"** that are "industry leading"!
Awesome subsets that will increase our pay AND QOL ***
Massive GROWTH ****
* = less
** = Sub COLA
*** = we get to work even more for the same pay with less flexibility
**** = via interlining, err, codeshare.
09-22-2015 | 05:14 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: retired EMB-145 CA
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