|
Negotiations
Anyone hearing how yesterday started off this round of negotiations? I'm cautiously optimistic, but I think we may see some real movement these sessions...
|
I heard everything is TA'd, just getting definitions and signing bonus down.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Negotiations
Can someone shed some light on what 1st year pay may be with new TA? I applied a few months ago and have done the Gallup Test but haven't heard anything since.
|
Originally Posted by FlyGuy2002
(Post 2379808)
Anyone hearing how yesterday started off this round of negotiations? I'm cautiously optimistic, but I think we may see some real movement these sessions...
|
Originally Posted by Crdrvr1
(Post 2379839)
Can someone shed some light on what 1st year pay may be with new TA? I applied a few months ago and have done the Gallup Test but haven't heard anything since.
|
Originally Posted by Tranquility
(Post 2379846)
I seem to recall you made a very optimistic and lengthy post in the fall of 2015 about how close we were to having a TA. We all know how that turned out, so forgive me if I take what you post with a grain of salt....
Haha.. you sure that as me? I'm not saying I didn't but it sure doesn't sound like me. I've never been accused of being an optimist ... and I'm positive I never believed this was gonna go very quick ... especailly in fall of 2015?! I can't remember myself ever thinking anything would get done near the Amendable date... until recently my thought was next summer |
I do recall a lengthy post of what was relayed to me by a union big wig in the Jumpseat... he sounded very positive and maybe I believed him too much.. but if recall correctly I more or less was relaying what he told me..
Regardless that was 2 years, 40 airplanes, 4 billion dollars, 400 pilots and 1 CEO ago...so I was curious as to how this week is going so far. We undoubtedly will find out late Friday in a union email.. but for the sake of convo I was just curious. External forces, in my belief are why we will start to see movement this week... hopefully .. cautiously optimistic |
I wouldn't expect anything earth shattering. I'm hoping for some solid progress, but seeing the way our management has run this company to this point makes me very pessimistic. Hopefully the NMB can provide a little push.
|
Originally Posted by Crdrvr1
(Post 2379839)
Can someone shed some light on what 1st year pay may be with new TA? I applied a few months ago and have done the Gallup Test but haven't heard anything since.
|
Originally Posted by FlyGuy2002
(Post 2379885)
Haha.. you sure that as me? I'm not saying I didn't but it sure doesn't sound like me. I've never been accused of being an optimist ... and I'm positive I never believed this was gonna go very quick ... especailly in fall of 2015?! I can't remember myself ever thinking anything would get done near the Amendable date... until recently my thought was next summer
spoke with union rep today in FLL for a good 15 minutes. He is one of the insiders. I tried as hard as I could to pick his brain. This is according to him, but a deal is imminent. I was curious about pay and retirement the most as are most folks I suspect. He basically said the company has agreed to 1.5 billion in total compensation over the 5 years. The union was shooting for 1.6ish or so. The 1.5 billion is to be divided up how the union sees fit. He acknowledged that the majority of the money is looked to be spent on the guys at 4-8 year longevity. obviously mostly capt rates. although the didn't give specifics it sounds a lot like jet blue rates.. 165-190 range. We talked about top end. I told him i thought $230 would be reasonable and he said don't be surprised to see it slightly higher than that. He said the senior guys are quickly being out numbered by mid tier seniority levels so therefore paying 125 guys $230 an hour wasn't nearly as big a portion of the 1.5 billion pot as mid level guys so they didn't mind to pay them that. He made it sound like first year still sucks, around $49 but second is around $90 and tops out around $145. Although he didn't tell me the breakdown between the two, but total retirement, direct contribution and company match on 401k would total 15%. maybe 10 DC and 5 match but who knows. he didn't say. He said an overwhelming majority surveys were more concerned with QOL issues, and thats what they spent most time working on. For the sake of expediency (because thats what surveys asked for) they worked on big ticket items. we DID not discuss stuff like min day, rigs, vacation and many of those items. reading between the lines much of that stuff wasnt discussed, and the new contract will be very similar to the old when it comes to all things other than compensation. I don't understand scope and merger protection so I didn't ask anything regarding that, because truthfully i don't know much about that stuff. He made light of the fact, we could argue for delta pay, and legacy pay and over a long period of time very likely get it. A mediator would buy into the argument that we are worth delta pay due to the success of the company but that a mediator would basically say there work rules and ours our so different that they would grant us delta pay if we took delta rules. Again, his opinion. So the million dollar question is, when this thing comes out, are guys gonna be willing to look at the entire package with Line bidding, 4 days off, good health insurance, good commuter clause and accept maybe 170 an hour when they think they are worth 182? we shall see. If its all about pay rates it will be OK but not great I suspect. but my opinion and mine only is that, as a whole its gonna be on a whole, a fair and reasonable TA. GOOD luck ! |
Originally Posted by illtake2
(Post 2379833)
I heard everything is TA'd, just getting definitions and signing bonus down.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk RETRO!!! |
Originally Posted by Tranquility
(Post 2379969)
Bendover himself could **** a 458 Italia on my driveway, hand me the keys, and I still won't forgive him or Bumbling Bob.
Now, an original Ghibli SS, on the other hand, might sway me. Like this one: 1972 Maserati Ghibli | DriverSource : Fine Motorcars | Houston, TX |
Originally Posted by flyboyike
(Post 2380267)
Who'd want that plastic, paddle-shifted toy anyway?
Now, an original Ghibli SS, on the other hand, might sway me. Like this one: 1972 Maserati Ghibli | DriverSource : Fine Motorcars | Houston, TX If I'm straying from my German flock, Ferrari would be my only outlet. Though, I'd love to try out an LFA. |
Originally Posted by Ed Force One
(Post 2380193)
I really hope the union is not stupid enough to agree to a signing bonus.
RETRO!!! |
So the company asked for additional Bargaining dates? Seems like they realize a contract is needed.
|
Source????????????
|
Originally Posted by IWalkJun12
(Post 2380455)
Source????????????
|
Originally Posted by AllOva736
(Post 2380452)
So the company asked for additional Bargaining dates? Seems like they realize a contract is needed.
|
Originally Posted by Planepirate
(Post 2380315)
Are retro dollars worth more than signing bonus dollars? I don't give a sh** what they call it. I have a number in my head but I will review the whole package before I make any yes/no vote decisions.
|
Originally Posted by Bum Hands
(Post 2380474)
I love how Bendo sends out an e-mail about how negotiations are going before our own negotiating committee which continues to remain silent. Just ridiculous.
|
Originally Posted by Bum Hands
(Post 2380481)
Yea, my phone just now decided to notify me about it so my bad. However it did come out after Bendo's e-mail. I would still prefer the first I hear of how how negotiations are going to come from ALPA and not freaking Bendo.
|
Originally Posted by Bum Hands
(Post 2380481)
Yea, my phone just now decided to notify me about it so my bad. However it did come out after Bendo's e-mail. I would still prefer the first I hear of how how negotiations are going to come from ALPA and not freaking Bendo.
|
Originally Posted by Lobaeux
(Post 2380478)
Email from the union has been out for over an hour.
|
Originally Posted by Tranquility
(Post 2380498)
Interesting, nothing in my inbox or on the ALPA website.
|
Originally Posted by Bum Hands
(Post 2380474)
I love how Bendo sends out an e-mail about how negotiations are going before our own negotiating committee which continues to remain silent. Just ridiculous.
|
Who cares when or if Bendo sends out an email, you're wasting your time if you indulge in that drivel.
|
And actually the email was from Bob and not Bendo. I have not seen an email from Bendo, or a podcast from him in the last 3 weeks.
|
Originally Posted by Planepirate
(Post 2380315)
Are retro dollars worth more than signing bonus dollars? I don't give a sh** what they call it. I have a number in my head but I will review the whole package before I make any yes/no vote decisions.
|
Originally Posted by Ed Force One
(Post 2380598)
What are you, new?
I just like to play devils advocate by challenging you to take a more methodical approach. For example: Review Hawaiian retro pay then figure out how much you would've gotten using that formula based on your longevity at spirit. Then when the company offers money in the form of retro or a signing bonus, you can compare your calculation. Then make a decision. I'd rather have a $50k high-five signing bonus vs. a $45k retro check. But yes, retro pay is typically going to be higher than a signing bonus. |
All speculative..... Let's not post what we will/won't vote for. We KNOW management reads these forums, so let's not give them any potential ammunition against our NC please.
|
He's not saying what he will or won't vote for. He in fact said he had a number in his head of what he's looking for and then will vote accordingly .. and the point i think he's trying to make is if the number they offer you is let's say 40k.. who really cares if they call it retro, bonus, spirit pilot appreciation money, boat down payment fun money Fund or what.. I'm in agreement with him.. I know what I'm looking for in the contract in it's entiriety... when it comes out I'll
Analazye the situation.. and go from there.. and between the surveys, and conversations the NC knows what we will or not vote for ... they've relayed that to management for 2 years now... it's not a state secret |
Originally Posted by Tranquility
(Post 2380638)
All speculative..... Let's not post what we will/won't vote for. We KNOW management reads these forums, so let's not give them any potential ammunition against our NC please.
I'll say it this way: I expect full retro. Management can label it whatever name they want, but I expect it in our TA. |
If management wanted the pilots to get a new contract, they would have presented one two years ago. As much as I want to believe Bendo and Bob have had a sudden change of heart and want to share their millions with the pilots, I'm simply not buying it. The extra sessions requested by the company are a another delay tactic, designed to placate the pilot group through the holiday transition over the 4th. Another operational meltdown over a holiday weekend would be a black eye to the company the board would no longer be able to ignore, and our fearless leaders would be searching the classified ads. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear this one's gonna be decided in a strike some years down the road.
|
Originally Posted by DirtHead
(Post 2380962)
If management wanted the pilots to get a new contract, they would have presented one two years ago. As much as I want to believe Bendo and Bob have had a sudden change of heart and want to share their millions with the pilots, I'm simply not buying it. The extra sessions requested by the company are a another delay tactic, designed to placate the pilot group through the holiday transition over the 4th. Another operational meltdown over a holiday weekend would be a black eye to the company the board would no longer be able to ignore, and our fearless leaders would be searching the classified ads. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear this one's gonna be decided in a strike some years down the road.
|
We should all know this by now, but I'll lay it out in case you don't.
RETRO is the only monetary motivation that the company has to not drag this out for all eternity. If 100% retro is paid, then from a strictly pay perspective it's almost as if the new contract had been reached on opening day. And if that's the case, then perhaps it motivates them a little more to reach an agreement to offset things like attrition, morale, or the inability to attract qualified applicants to begin with. A signing bonus is just that. Money that can be paid out whenever, giving the company every motivation to prolong the old contract. Granted, it's not that simple. There are other ways in which the company profits, such as prolonging poor trip and duty rigs, rest requirements etc. To not ask for full retro is a failure on ALPA National's part, not just on our MEC. I am of the mindset that every contract signed should include 100% retro. Making 100% retro pay "Industry Standard" will go a long ways towards helping out *ALL* pilot groups in the future. As long as we are handcuffed to the outdated *RAILWAY* Labor Act, this is one of very few weapons that we have. The fact that some of us don't know this is proof enough that change is needed. |
To simplify what you are saying... without retro we pay for our own raise.
|
Originally Posted by Ed Force One
(Post 2380993)
We should all know this by now, but I'll lay it out in case you don't.
RETRO is the only monetary motivation that the company has to not drag this out for all eternity. If 100% retro is paid, then from a strictly pay perspective it's almost as if the new contract had been reached on opening day. And if that's the case, then perhaps it motivates them a little more to reach an agreement to offset things like attrition, morale, or the inability to attract qualified applicants to begin with. A signing bonus is just that. Money that can be paid out whenever, giving the company every motivation to prolong the old contract. Granted, it's not that simple. There are other ways in which the company profits, such as prolonging poor trip and duty rigs, rest requirements etc. To not ask for full retro is a failure on ALPA National's part, not just on our MEC. I am of the mindset that every contract signed should include 100% retro. Making 100% retro pay "Industry Standard" will go a long ways towards helping out *ALL* pilot groups in the future. As long as we are handcuffed to the outdated *RAILWAY* Labor Act, this is one of very few weapons that we have. The fact that some of us don't know this is proof enough that change is needed. |
Don't be short sighted, it's semantics.
Who cares if they call it retro or signing bonus. Count the $$$. If it is enough, then it is enough. If not, it isn't. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:29 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands