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Originally Posted by FlyGuy2002
(Post 2430115)
But you are only using the big 3. When Using comps, you use all the comps not just the ones that you cherry pick. They said their are 8 different airlines that are our 'Comprables.' Not to mention with exception a few outliers st delta nobody is legacy captain Making those rates at yesr 3. I'm not advocating either way, I have my opinion on the proposal and I'll keep pretty much to myself. Just saying when selling a house you use all the comps on the street not just the ones that help your price point ..
PS also mentioned only 2 of those 8 have line bidding ... so by definition line bidding is not industry standard. Collectively we'll have to pick and choose what we have to have and what we might negotiate on ..we shall see . It's gonna be a long road ahead |
Originally Posted by pete2800
(Post 2430120)
Nah, I don't work at Spirit, but there aren't that many comparisons. Frontier's is a bankruptcy driven, Virgin won't exist anymore, Alaska is pending arbitration, and Jetblue has been in negotiations for a while now.
When you're selling a house, you compare to current values, not values that homes on that street sold at 5 years ago. The current, valid, negotiated union contracts are Delta, American, United, Southwest, Hawaiian, and Allegiant. That's it. Run those numbers if you want averages. GREAT point. Thank you. |
Originally Posted by pete2800
(Post 2430120)
Nah, I don't work at Spirit, but there aren't that many comparisons. Frontier's is a bankruptcy driven, Virgin won't exist anymore, Alaska is pending arbitration, and Jetblue has been in negotiations for a while now.
When you're selling a house, you compare to current values, not values that homes on that street sold at 5 years ago. The current, valid, negotiated union contracts are Delta, American, United, Southwest, Hawaiian, and Allegiant. That's it. Run those numbers if you want averages. |
Without scope and LTD it's irellevant... those protections are necessity.
It's clear the NMB doesn't really care what we think is 'fair.' sounds like she thought a 43% improvement was sufficient. Now we are left to our own devices to get this Thing moving. To be sure the leverage we Thought the NMB would provide by keeping us at the table has been lost. It will be what it will be . But don't go Clark griswald and pay for that swimming pool this Xmas . |
Originally Posted by FlyGuy2002
(Post 2430140)
Without scope and LTD it's irellevant... those protections are necessity.
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Keep in mind when comparing rates at the legacies:
Waiting may pay off as jetBlue should be upping theirs slightly but how much will you obtain by waiting? It's quite possible your NC is overstepping and still looking at rates. If you guys want better work rules it will cost on the rate side of the equation. If you continue to be "unreasonable" in the eyes of the NMB you will be left in a hold for years, this is exactly what the company wants, the longer you hold out for best instead of accepting good or better now the more money they make and the closer we get to an economic downturn where things might not be so easy to negotiate. This was literally AA's story back in 2000-2001 time frame. The wanted UAL +%, it never happened and when the furloughs started that time had come and gone. You definitely deserve WAY more than you are making now and it kinda pains me to see all the guys I've known go to Spirit waiting on this raise, I really did think it would happen for you by this time. |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2430347)
Keep in mind when comparing rates at the legacies:
Waiting may pay off as jetBlue should be upping theirs slightly but how much will you obtain by waiting? It's quite possible your NC is overstepping and still looking at rates. If you guys want better work rules it will cost on the rate side of the equation. If you continue to be "unreasonable" in the eyes of the NMB you will be left in a hold for years, this is exactly what the company wants, the longer you hold out for best instead of accepting good or better now the more money they make and the closer we get to an economic downturn where things might not be so easy to negotiate. This was literally AA's story back in 2000-2001 time frame. The wanted UAL +%, it never happened and when the furloughs started that time had come and gone. You definitely deserve WAY more than you are making now and it kinda pains me to see all the guys I've known go to Spirit waiting on this raise, I really did think it would happen for you by this time. |
Originally Posted by CRJoperator
(Post 2430352)
Just out of curiousty, what's do you know about AA work rules? Example(s) would be great.
- - - I'm not joking they are practically nonexistent. I don't know a ton about your contract but what I've picked up it is light years ahead in the QOL area than we are. If your trip cancels do you go on reserve? At AA you do. |
Originally Posted by pete2800
(Post 2430120)
Nah, I don't work at Spirit, but there aren't that many comparisons. Frontier's is a bankruptcy driven, Virgin won't exist anymore, Alaska is pending arbitration, and Jetblue has been in negotiations for a while now.
When you're selling a house, you compare to current values, not values that homes on that street sold at 5 years ago. The current, valid, negotiated union contracts are Delta, American, United, Southwest, Hawaiian, and Allegiant. That's it. Run those numbers if you want averages. Your housing example is just crazy! Companies should pay fair market rate based on their segment of the industry. Market rate is whatever your competitors in your segment of the industry CURRENTLY pays. To argue that, well... they're negotiating right now and will have a better contract soon thus we should compare ourselves to their next contract has as merit as the company saying, "well, 2 contracts from now Alaska/virgin will have a contract during a downturn so we'll use that as a baseline." Face it, your union and the outspoken clowns has backed your position into a corner. For the sake of saving face at this point, I don't see y'all willing to come out and accept anything but legacy rates. And I believe the NMB will see the company's proposal as entirely reasonable and will stop any strike before it starts. Y'all are basically stuck in this hellhole of a stalemate for years to come. Thank goodness there's full retro!!! Good luck! |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2430357)
Here are the AA work rules
- - - I'm not joking they are practically nonexistent. I don't know a ton about your contract but what I've picked up it is light years ahead in the QOL area than we are. If your trip cancels do you go on reserve? At AA you do. - When a trip is cancelled you DO NOT go on reserve. If a 3 day trip is cancelled they can assign you another trip BUT only if it stays within the original footprint. Obviously with some contractual limitations. I agree the 4 days off between trips is nice but other than that I can't find anything else. |
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