Feng

How much less do you think Spirit could care or are you saying the pilots are failing because Spirit is careless?

nkbux

He’s saying it doesn’t matter to Spirit because they financially plan for a high washout rate. And anyone they can squeeze through at $38 an hour is icing on the cake. Career integrity? They probably love type busts so it makes it harder for said individual to leave this god forsaken crap hole

TheDudeabide

I’m tired of hearing about inexperienced new hires or not being prepared when you arrive. I’m not going to give away too much about myself on here. But I’m not. 2k pilot. I have way more than that in 121 PIC. Point is, you’ll receive an email saying to log in and begin doing the CBT and even suggests an order. That’s the emphasis they send out. I know to learn the memory items limitations. As for flows, without the manuals, where do I get that? I have friends here and was able to get a jump on it, kind of. But there are things or obligations that some need to some people have to meet before they can show up to training and can’t devote a full week or two before hand. When you arrive at trading and you’re told,” forget the CBT’s, concetrait in flows. Then different instructors teach different, sometimes conflicting information. If you are unfortunate enough to be paired with a weak sim partner, with the ****ty instruction, it is a recipe for failure. I do f care how hot shtt you think you are. It’s a mine field to navigate on your own. This “training” program is the worst I’ve seen. I do take my responsibility for my short comings. But it isn’t all me, or this wouldn’t be the first problem I’ve had in training. Quit bragging about how this is a “real” airline and operate it like one. Stop throwing a pile of books and useless “study sheets” ( that the examiners hate btw) and saying, learn all of this in 4 weeks and prepare for 4 sims, that you seat swap in and suck it up. Seriously, 8 hours in the left seat, part of which is wasted on Bogata and crap you won’t see on the checkride. Give me a break. The problem isn’t all me

rickair7777

In my observation, there are two kinds of folks who struggle with training. Those who just need more time, and those who suck.

The former are often great pilots, maybe far better than average once everything "clicks" for them.

The regionals are starting to try to accommodate the former, but unfortunately it's often hard to discriminate between the later and the former in training.

FML666

All he's saying (indirectly) is that the term is "COULDN'T care less".

nkbux

Which makes sense considering “HE” is a worthless troll

FML666

I buy this. My new hire training was a less than optimal experience because the only constant we had in the paper tiger/CPT/touch screen trainer portion was an "instructor in training" who in fact did (or at least tried to do) most of the training while we were officially being trained by a revolving door of 6 different instructors who spent as much time trying to instruct him as they did us.

IMO the people who make it through the training program do so in spite of it, not because of it. Personal responsibility is of course a big part of successfully completing any training but our current washout rate would seem to be the result of a program that relies heavily on the students and even more so the instructors going above and beyond to make it work. It might work with students who bring significant previous experience with them but 2000TT/one year in the right seat of an RJ new hires lay the weaknesses of the program bare.

Qotsaautopilot

Let's put it this way, the instructors don't even have a syllabus to teach from only a list of items that must be completed. No explanation on how to teach it. So basically each prebrief can be wildly different for the same training event depending on the instructor. Let's say some are better than others.

That works on IOE but not in the systems trainer and the SIM. The airbus while popular around the world is very different for pilots that have not flown it before and explaining how it works should be taught a certain way. If the standard isn't working, sure the instructor should be able to adapt to help the student but there must be a standard to start. Right now it's "go teach them hydraulics for 2hrs any way you want"

I had a great instructor and kept him all the way through and it was still hard to grasp the both systems and the flying because of the compressed time and the airbus being "weird". Some are not as lucky.

2992set

so I recently completed training. Some stats...everyone passed the oral on their first try. statistically 25% of our class failed the check ride..they retrained and passed. Varying type of experience, but all 121 guys. One guy was unfortunately let go due to weak systems knowledge and weak flows - 135 guy..the class before ours I think I heard a couple people busted the ride, and the class after ours a few failed the oral. To my knowledge everyone who "failed" an oral or ride retrained and passed...

As far as instructors go, its all luck. I was EXTREMELY lucky and had awesome line pilots teaching me, where some of my classmates had the majority of their CPTs and CSIs taught by "ground instructors" some of them who have never flown a jet, but are picked out of 141 CFI jobs, given a type, and told "teach indoc for 2 years and then we'll let you fly". I will give them enormous credit for what they do (you could never pay me enough to teach indoc) but its a unfortunate fact that the new hires who are being taught systems and flows/procedures from people who have 0 turbine time are definitely getting sauced on portions of their training.

Some good news, some instructors are currently trying to reorganize the training syllabus and I got to grab a sneak peak and they are sincerely trying to make it better. So give them credit and just give them some time to get it done.

Overall, you need to come prepared with flows memory items and limitations down cold on day 1. Agreed everyone tells you something different and all you focus on is Flows for the first 2 weeks, but having the limitations and memory items, and having watched the CBTs already at home, holding that info in your back pocket makes the program much more manageable. It is completely up to you to put the work in.

All that being said; its a great feeling getting out of that sheraton!

Qotsaautopilot

Thanks for the update. And now 25% of your class has no options outside of Spirit because they have a 121 pink slip. And that 135 guy who probably shouldn’t have been hired in the first place because he’s used to going to training as a customer, now probably doesn’t have a job to go back to. I have no idea why people keep showing up to this place with the training risks involved.