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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Spirit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/)
-   -   The TA Road Show video is now online! (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/111364-ta-road-show-video-now-online.html)

Lakeaffect 02-11-2018 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by BnthrDnTht (Post 2526073)
Voted NO:

- Been here 19 years ... TA now makes me a 12yr employee. Classic move in corporate America ... would love to fire all the senior experience pay grades and hire a bunch of 3yr upgrades but cannot ...
This may come as news to you but a large majority of pilots want a 12 year pay scale. sorry.

Lincoln Osiris 02-11-2018 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by astral (Post 2526079)
However it is not the mediator nor the NC that will be motivated to return, it will be management.
LMAO I still some of what you are smoking man!

dotslash 02-12-2018 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Pgus (Post 2525957)
He looked tired (understandably) and defeated. No bueno.
You are not kidding.




https://media.makeameme.org/created/...-in-5a816a.jpg

Conquistador27 02-12-2018 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by BnthrDnTht (Post 2526073)
Voted NO:

- Standard work rules, NON-STANDARD PAY!

- Biggest Gripe after LOSING QUALITY-OF-LIFE CONTROLS! ... Is lack of RECOGNITION FOR YEARS OF SERVICE!

- Been here 19 years ... TA now makes me a 12yr employee. Classic move in corporate America ... would love to fire all the senior experience pay grades and hire a bunch of 3yr upgrades but cannot ...

- So the next best option is to demote them!
And yet feel "good" cause your getting your NMB approved "pay raise".

- So I'm a 19 year LTC in the AF and have done my dues (most of them sh**ty and earned my respect. Few years to retirement or promotion. OPTEMPO bad but budget GREAT! ... biggest EVER! Sorry Colonel ... we are going to have to reduce your pay to a senior Capt or junior Major ... but hey ... you still got your Rank!!

Not-to-Worry, all us Generals are still are getting all of our bonuses and beyond "god" recognition pay for holding down the forts.

- A yes vote ... low tier, low pay and LOW RESPECT for at least eight more years!

WE CAN DO BETTER!
Since you are bringing up the military, how exactly does this compare to going from colonel pay to captain or major? You’d be going from 185 to 237. That’s a pay raise. You understand that right? Who gives a $hit what year they call it? You are acting like you are taking a pay cut. If anything, it’d be the exact opposite. Sorry colonel, we are going to have to demote you to junior major, but we’ll pay you as a Lt. Gen. Can’t even believe that’s where somewhere decides to vote yes or no.

flyguyniner11 02-12-2018 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by Lincoln Osiris (Post 2526089)
LMAO I still some of what you are smoking man!
The company has said they will NOT negotiate without the NMB. So yes. It will be a long time to get another deal if this gets voted down. I hope all the no voters realize this and are comfortable with dealing our next TA something like 2 years.

MGMTiswatchingU 02-12-2018 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 2526135)
The company has said they will NOT negotiate without the NMB. So yes. It will be a long time to get another deal if this gets voted down. I hope all the no voters realize this and are comfortable with dealing our next TA something like 2 years.

All a part of the game. Company can say that and turn around to do the exact opposite. They did not sign a contract which tied them to that statement so they don't have to live by it.

Purpose of why they would state that? For the exact reason that you posted, make you think you won't get sh** for years forcing your decision to vote yes.

When sh** hits the fan for company, just watch them run back quickly, especially for this summer (3- 4 months away).

Just focus on if the TA makes sense for you, not on what management or NMB claims. Else you'll vote in fear.

flyguyniner11 02-12-2018 03:49 AM
Originally Posted by MGMTiswatchingU (Post 2526144)
All a part of the game. Company can say that and turn around to do the exact opposite. They did not sign a contract which tied them to that statement so they don't have to live by it.

Purpose of why they would state that? For the exact reason that you posted, make you think you won't get sh** for years forcing your decision to vote yes.

When **** hits the fan for company, just watch them run back quickly, especially for this summer (3- 4 months away).
You could be right. Possibly, but they didn’t come running back to the table after September. It took the NMB to get them back. And if we do go back to the table, the company could ask for some things back that they weren’t too thrilled with either. There is a give and take. It seems like all the NO warriors think we will just get everything we hope for if it gets voted down. The reality is that it could go either way, it’s a negotiation, give and take.

MGMTiswatchingU 02-12-2018 03:51 AM
Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 2526145)
You could be right. Possibly, but they didn’t come running back to the table after September. It took the NMB to get them back. And if we do go back to the table, the company could ask for some things back that they weren’t too thrilled with either. There is a give and take. It seems like all the NO warriors think we will just get everything we hope for if it gets voted down. The reality is that it could go either way, it’s a negotiation, give and take.
True. Could go either way, just vote based on if the TA makes sense for you, not whether they would come back to the table within 2 years or within 4 months. If you don't like the TA then vote no, if you do then vote yes. We all should jus keep in mind that whatever is agreed upon today will haunt for 7-8 yrs. And if the company take back money then they need to give back work rules.

So the real question is, based on what's in this TA (concessions vs pay and QOL), can you live with it for 7-8 yrs?

Lakeaffect 02-12-2018 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 2526135)
The company has said they will NOT negotiate without the NMB. So yes. It will be a long time to get another deal if this gets voted down. I hope all the no voters realize this and are comfortable with dealing our next TA something like 2 years.
They would say this whether or not they’d negotiate without the NMB. Doesn’t make it true. I voted yes and I’m not that gullible. No one knows what will happen in terms of the companies reaction to a no vote.

otter1 02-12-2018 04:42 AM
Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 2526135)
The company has said they will NOT negotiate without the NMB. So yes. It will be a long time to get another deal if this gets voted down. I hope all the no voters realize this and are comfortable with dealing our next TA something like 2 years.
I agree. Things like this Should be part of your decision process. Giving up a raise of $65K+/year, giving up great LTD, risking going with our much less substantial scope, and not having a substantial DC for however long it takes needs to be factored in to everyone's decision.

If you believe the NC, they are all of one mind that we wouldn't get much more by turning this down, we could wait a looooong time, and may have to give up more.

Some guys are upset about losing transition, or checkerboard reserve, or other things. Even if we turn down the TA, those things are almost certainly gone with the next TA, so what will you have gained?

I hope everyone who voted no at least saw a road show. You are doing yourself and the pilot group a disservice if you didn't.


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