Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself, and it's refreshing to hear an adult response.

Yep. People living beyond their needs or being in debt from horrible first year pay played a big part this time around. Being financially stable gives you much more leverage. We litterally have captains that don’t contribute to their retirement to get the match. I guess they planned on living with their kids when they turn 65.

I shouldn’t expect differently results. There will still be plenty working paycheck to paycheck while their brand new car bakes in the employee lot 15 days a month. Makes complete sense.

What kinda crackhead lives paycheck to paycheck at 200k+ a year 🤣🤣

A very serious crackhead

If they are frustrated then that’s their problem. I wasn’t frustrated when Allegiant or sun country signed their contracts. And surprisingly we were able to negotiate substantially better. Our contract has very little to do with Frontier or JBlue getting the most they can get. But hey, we live in a generation where everyone is a victim, so play your victim cards and blame everything on everyone else.

Regarding - Invest wisely so we have more leverage...

Even if we each had $20 milllion in the bank it still would have been unwise to vote the last contract down. The decision is made based on picking the best option, given the negotiation circumstances/reality.

Having money in the bank has got nothing to do with it.

Hey guys first off congrats from another F9 guy. I'll be honest as I've only seen bits and pieces of your TA and don't know a lot about your last contract but from what I've understood, you used to have pay protection on transition conflicts with your line bidding. Now with PBS obviously that will go away.

I'd assume you could probably somewhat easily be able to get 10 hrs of protected pay per month averaged out over the year through these monthly transition conflicts.

At the old pay rate 85*185 = 15725
At the new rate 75*235 = 17625
Adjusted effective old rate = $209/hr

I know there were improvements in DC and such, but were there protections created in other areas to offset this loss? Again forgive my ignorance, I'm asking these questions to reduce said ignorance. And congrats, hopefully for all our sake we at F9 can raise the bar a little higher.

It is very (or was) very difficult to hit transition every month for most guys. It was a minority ...............

Ok, makes sense. If it costs the company money they avoid it.

At F9, since we are not pay protected for these drops they seem very prevalent. I'd say I get them 90% of the time and typically will loose out. Carrying in say 7-9 hours and loosing a 19-20 trip because of it. Then because of the way the trips are constructed and lower quality lines it can be difficult to pick back up to original line value without working an additional 1-2 days more than the original line.

I essentially figured your system would be likened to an inverse of ours (easily loosing 10 hrs a month if not working additional days), but again, if it costs the company money they will work harder to avoid it.

You are exactly right; Yes voters did not vote yes necessarily out of need for more money, they voted yes because they realized this was probably the best deal, and took the deal.

Qotsaautopilot preaching his opinions again to the masses...sure, every yes voter lives paycheck to paycheck and the no voters have cash in the bank to wait for the next deal. What a idiotic position

Do not forget benefit from CASS being non-alpa when NK did not take part.

Amen..................

United pilot here. Huge congrats on your new contract. The company ran you guys through the ringer with underhanded tactics but it looks like you got a great new contract. No contract’s perfect but yours made one helluvan improvement over your old one. And you’ve now made it easier for every other pilot union to get a better contract based on your gains.

One last point: your LTD sounds like it’s industry leading and all the rest of us at other airlines will now be negotiating for a match/leapfrog of the great advance you guys made.

Again, congratulations.

Thanks. The LTD was a big item we had to get after getting iced in September. It is very good. I do believe Delta makes the DC 16% retirement contribution on the disabled pilots LTD earnings. I haven’t gotten confirmation on that but it is a big deal if so.

It has been said that ours will be offset by outside income like another job but the information at the roadshow wasn’t clear on specifics (my earnings or joint earnings with a spouse etc). We also get company medical at active rates for 5 years

Anyhow it was a big jump from what we had which was own occupation for only two years. This goes til 65.

It’s 60% of the last years W2 with a max of $15k/mo. First $5k is taxable and whatever you qualify for over that you pay a nominal premium after tax for and the benefit is tax free.

Good job setting up the Frontier guys for failure and lowering the bar even further!

You’re welcome.

Was it your Mom (not me) or your Dad that didn't give you enough love because every single post you make is negative. Reach in to that overpriced cooler you bought and pull out some sunshine and rainbows.

I don't know this guy, but I doubt he is a Frontier pilot. Our newly amended agreement with Spirit does not set the Frontier pilots up for failure, and the accusation does nothing to help them. It's just the modern day lust to point and scream that is so common on the internet.

The Spirit pilot group supports and wishes the best for the Frontier guys in their struggle.

To keep it simple, Delta pays 50 percent of your salary until 65 years old. They give 32 percent of disability payment into 401k (keeps retirement whole). Almost all pilots subsidize this with DPMA which keeps your pay whole for the first year on long term disability.

That’s a nice plan. Thanks

Clearly you were not breast fed as a child.

Spirit pilots ratify an industry trailing TA.

One poster points out that this drags down the negotiating environment for them and everyone else.

Spirit pilots respond with

“Was it your Mom (not me) or your Dad that didn't give you enough love...”

“Clearly you were not breast fed as a child.”

This is all coming together now.

Actually we raised the bar. Top pay at the end of the contract is $260 at year 12. I guess you are mad because you don't think your contract will be as good.

My advice to have faith. I was surprised and I would not be at all surprised if F9 new contract will have similar or even higher pay.

Don’t even bother. “Yetifan” has a loooooong post history of being miserable. Hes just angry hes stuck in the right seat forever at Alaska.

Let me add to it....

Your mom and I are coming together after a lovely seafood dinner.

Delta's plan is the best in the business. It has no cap (Spirit's cap is $15k) and has no offsets (for other sources of disability insurance or even other work income after three years disabled). But Spirit's new one is pretty good overall.

Be careful with talking trash like that. A few short years ago you were a permanent FO at xjt with no future and were looking for any life line that was tossed your way even outside of the Airlines. I’m pretty sure you took the first job offered. I’m glad it worked out for you, I really am.

Honest question here and I’m not trying to be a jerk, but how exactly is this TA raising the bar? Parts of it yes but as a whole it appears mediocre to me so I must be missing something. It seems you took some QOL hits in order to get higher rates. You got scope which is great and totally worth it in my opinion but the hourly rates still seem low for the first few years.

I’m a VX/AS guy who is unfortunately now part of one of the most spineless pilots groups around and we just got our a$$ handed to us in arbitration so I’m not trying to act like I’m above any of you, I’m curious and trying to educate myself.

What a stupid post! Your on APC dumbass! Are you suggesting this type of rhetoric only comes from Spirit pilots? ok then.......

"Careful with trash talking"?, lol what? are you serious? Go back and read "yetis" posts. He's incredibly angry and condescending with every single post he makes. He comes on this thread and "thanks us for lowering the Bar"............. I didn't go on Alaska's Arbitration Outcome thread and Trash talk anyone or "Thank them" for lowering the bar..............

TA Ratified.
 

This ta doesn’t raise the bar for anything, there isn’t one single item in it that’s “industry leading” only reason folks voted for this is because of the bonus they offered (IMO). I do feel for the guys at Frontier and JB as this won’t help them at all, considering we voted in basically JB rates

*edit took out the part about the 4 days off

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Fixed it for ya

Well if you read the contract it says this...... The PBS will allow pilots to preserve or waive “4 days off” on a six-month trial basis. Six (6) months following the implementation of PBS, the Association will inform the Company as to whether to continue allowing such waivers on a permanent basis. My god some of you angry types need to at least come correct if you want to make arguments.

Lowering the bar? Says the guy from Alaska who agreed to arbitration which actually screwed us and every other airline that isn't the size of the Big 4


Oh, btw, I get that it really bothers you that guys at Spirit who got hired in 2015 (same time you got hired at VA) are now at a considerably higher income level than you, but don't worry pal...........you'll get there eventually! Keep ya head up little guy!

Braniff!


..

Paul Braniff ran a good airline. In later years, it was the jellybean airline. ;)

Of course I dreamed of “The Airline Run by Fliers”. Then Carl Icahn happened! :mad:

I got into this business in order to fly Braniff's colorful airframes and to be banging smoking hot FA's on the layovers. Needless to say I've been very, very disappointed. My beloved Braniff is gone and it's nothing but gays, grannies, and grandes. I owe a beer to my WN brother for calling a spade a spade.

Eastern L1011 would have been nice. Maybe one day the old days will return.

First flying experience ever was on an Eastern L-1011 to Disney. Coolest airplane and livery ever, lol.

[QUOTE=flyingpuma1;2541382]This ta doesn’t raise the bar for anything, there isn’t one single item in it that’s “industry leading” only reason folks voted for this is because of the bonus they offered (IMO). I do feel for the guys at Frontier and JB as this won’t help them at all, considering we voted in basically JB rates

You are ill informed. No one voted yes to this because of the signing bonus. This was voted yes because this is the best we could get.
We were told by the NMB we will never get released to strike. The company never met with the union outside mediation. With what we did get, the company’s profitability will be well below the industry now and the NMB felt that this is as far as they wanted to go without negatively affecting the financial health of Spirit.
We got the largest increase in pay in a single contract cycle in ALPA history.
So I think the reason we voted yes is because if we didn’t, the NMB was going to ice us for an undetermined amount of time while they went on to Frontier, JB and railroads. Losing $5,000 a month,no scope, no DC, no LTD (own occupation) just to vote no is a very poor financial decision.
Most captains in the middle of the pack will have higher career earnings than going anywhere else at this point other than Delta.

Once the bonus check is gone, your new work rules are in full gear, only then will you know if it was the right thing to do.

NMB will always tell any group they’ll “never release” them as long as the parties are negotiating. But once the TA is voted down, it’s a different ball game.

Loss of pay going forward is only the case if you don’t *require* the full retro. There’s plenty of recent precedent for it. By accepting a fraction of a bonus, you provide the company with greater savings on dragging their feet.

The fact that you got the largest percentage increase means your pay rates were grossly subpar and outdated and shouldn’t be considered too radical or special.

You have no skin in the game in day to day operations because you don’t get profit sharing. Given the industry trends, you left a very big chunk of change on the table, likely to the tunes of tens of thousands of dollars per pilot.

But in the end, I’m just an outside observer. You folks voted your conscience. It’s as simple as that. Congratulations on your new contract. Onto bigger and better things!




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