[QUOTE=RJSAviator76;2545802]Once the bonus check is gone, your new work rules are in full gear, only then will you know if it was the right thing to do.

NMB will always tell any group they’ll “never release” them as long as the parties are negotiating. But once the TA is voted down, it’s a different ball game.

Loss of pay going forward is only the case if you don’t *require* the full retro. There’s plenty of recent precedent for it. By accepting a fraction of a bonus, you provide the company with greater savings on dragging their feet.

The fact that you got the largest percentage increase means your pay rates were grossly subpar and outdated and shouldn’t be considered too radical or special.

You have no skin in the game in day to day operations because you don’t get profit sharing. Given the industry trends, you left a very big chunk of change on the table, likely to the tunes of tens of thousands of dollars per pilot.

But in the end, I’m just an outside observer. You folks voted your conscience. It’s as simple as that. Congratulations on your new contract. Onto bigger and better things!


That profit sharing is working out really well for B6 right now.
Your argument is full of holes.

Ours is 11.3% for last year and is getting paid next week. It’s nice to have a skin in the game....

Wrong. No skin in the game? How about getting paid pretty well to do your job effectively without scratching the airplane? There’s your skin in the game. Go buy some stock if you need more.

I’ve worked at places that profit sharing has easily disappeared and turned into a performance bonus that turned out to be nothing if the performance goals weren’t met.

That can’t happen if the formula for calculating the profit sharing is contractually mandated.

LOL!

Well... when you don’t know, you just don’t know.

Of course management always complies with what’s in the contract. I must have been dreaming when it happened to the pilot group I was working with.

Well, let’s see what happens to it during negotiations. Is it less than last years dollars you got?
For now you can use it to offset your ginormous healthcare costs.

Looks like we have at least one more month of paid transition conflicts.

Uh... what? I’m on our Regular Plan and pay exactly $0 in monthly premium, $200 individual deductible or $300 for the family and max out of pocket for the year is $2500.

You talking about B6 or SWA?

[QUOTE=Flyondawall;2545797]Please just stop posting arguments for this thing. I'm moving on so I'd appreciate it if you do as well. Thank you.

And it looks like pay rates aren’t effective until March 2nd now....

[QUOTE=lowandslow;2546153]Um, ok. Didn’t realize you were forced to read these posts.

I’m at SWA.

Oh, no wonder the confusion. I just thought you were another B6 guy. My apologies.

No sweat... cheers!

[QUOTE=Flyondawall;2546183]Great response!

If I were here voicing my thoughts on how we were screwed (BTW-Of course it was voted in for the money it sure wasn't to get PBS) I'm pretty sure everyone would say "dude move on, let's work together and make things better."
Your repeating of the Yes voter's mantra of "NMB..., best we can do..." sucked before ratification and it sucks now so enjoy your bonus and your not quite industry standard pay and move on.

HA! Just because they can!!

[QUOTE=lowandslow;2546220]I’m guessing you were a no vote. Makes perfect sense.

Does anyone else have a problem with this? I know I do. We were told in writing that it was March 1st. All of us essentially lose the difference on 1/30th of our February guarantee and those that worked 3/1 lose even more. Some picked up JRM on the 1st because we were told rates were effective then.

[QUOTE=Flyondawall;2546325]Quite the sleuth. What does my position say under my name? RJS has been openly SWA here for over a month yet you jumped on him/her as a B6 pilot.

I do and I contacted my rep. I suggest others do the same.

[QUOTE=lowandslow;2546331]Lol, ok buddy. I did apologize to him for the confusion. We were talking about B6 then SWA and I thought he was B6. My admitted error. It doesn’t change the fact that you are the kind of person that likes to constantly complain and be a miserable prick.

Reference the X and Y list. Which one are you able to say no to once you talk to them?

X. Are you all seeing it on flica?

Yes.////////

[QUOTE=Flyondawall;2546389]Again nailed it! I've been on here everyday complaining about the TA. Remember you were the one who felt the need to regurgitate the buzzwords related to why we had to vote yes. I simply asked you to move on and you immediately felt the need to go superdouche on me. I'm pretty pleasant actually and with your preconceived notions of a no voter profile I think you'd guess wrong. I'm sure you'll have a clever response to this so I'll let you take the last word.

Yes! I have over 300 problems with it!

I will grieve this, we had it in writing, and DOS is the first. I credited 8:25 on the first, so I lose over $600...

LOL!! Day one, can't wait to see how the rest of the seven to eight years of this contract is going to go.

Be careful what you ask for. Apparently as part of the negotiating that got the Mar 2 pay rate changeover, the company agreed to old transition conflict rules for April and May.

Read the email, see what really happened, and then decide if you've been injured.

The grievance will get shot down. ALPA agreed to the March 2nd, and they are also the ones that determine if a grievance will get heard or not. You only other source is outside counsel.

We also have in writing that for every $1 we gave up, we'd earn an extra $14. When our 2019 W2's come in, we'll realize that claim isn't very accurate either.

Keep us posted on your fight; it'd be nice to see some accountability.

I'm not hopeful, but I am mad, and I feel I should at least point out they promised and didn't deliver.

I agree with you, and I would be mad as well. I was just pointing out the reality, but if I was you I would file it as well, just out of principle.

What was the ultimate goal/desire of the pilot group for this contract? What was left out that should be fought for in 2023? Is another 2-3 year delay in negotiations likely when the contract becomes amendable?

I get that a bit more pay would have been welcome, but a cursory look at the DOS+4 CA rates show that your new rates are competitive with A319/320 CA rates at the legacy carriers and they destroy the rates at Allegiant, Frontier, and JetBlue (for now).

The FO rates lag behind the legacies, but with upgrade potential at 5 years given continued growth, that is a huge difference in total lifetime compensation for an older "initiate" to the 121 world who goes to Spirit early on, given 12-15 year upgrades at the Legacies and timing/age that will prevent ever being a widebody CA. My calculations yield a result of $1 million in favor of going to Spirit after about 3 years at a regional over waiting to flow to American from one of their WO regionals.

I'd like to have seen a bump in training pay and a slightly stronger 1st year FO rate, but I can see how retaining a barrier to entry will weed out candidates that aren't serious about a long-term career move to Spirit.

Management will always be the thorn in the side of the flight crews, but aside from that is the work enjoyable and are the people good to work with? Is Spirit somewhere you could see yourself finishing your career after the "improvements" in this TA?

Dear god, please stop.

They still got you guys on the pay roll huh? 12-15 year upgrade at the legacies? Try 2–5. Meanwhile our upgrade times will continue to creep up and our lack of profit sharing, subpar FO rates and embarrassing training pay will continue to motivate anybody with less than five years on property to bail for the legacies/SWA/FedEx as soon as they get the call.

There are many many staying at Spirit for a career. Crews are awesome! Lots of 5 year pilots that don't even have apps in at the others. Lots of negativity on APC but try asking a pilot in person and it won't seem so bad.

This is so true. What people say on APC and what you hear on the line are different.