"Dumb and short sighted?"
Perhaps your hind sight is not quite 20/20. I get it that your point is about leverage, but if the no voters prevailed, how much longer would you have been willing to keep fighting while on CBA 2010 pay?

The ability to checkerboard reserve days could never have been maintained in any TA. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a one issue no voter though.
Anyway, it's all hypothetical now. CBA 2018, as imperfect as it is, is the deal, and calling your fellow pilots dumb and short sighted is frankly dumb and short sighted.
The vote is over and we all, yes and no voters alike, need to focus on the future.

Unity is as important as ever.

 

You obviously don’t understand the concept of seniority. First airline?

 

You're right about two things, I was talking about leverage, and I shouldn't have called my fellow pilots dumb and short sighted. I guess I was in the minority, but I would have been willing to wait a while longer to get what we deserve. But I really don't think we would have had to. The company needed transition and checkerboarding gone so badly it wasn't even funny. They absolutely played us. I will refrain from calling fellow pilots dumb, but I just hope we can all learn a lesson from this for next time. Don't vote based on the fear of what would happen if you vote no, or how long you may have to wait. The company will ALWAYS try to play you by making the unknown seem so scary. I get it that we were very far behind this time and it was hard to keep waiting. Next time we will still be very far behind, so we all need to start preparing for a long wait now.

 

Thanks for seeing my point, but now I have another.
Again with the fear accusations???
What is this 2010???

There is no two ways about it. Voting down a TA creates a lot of unknowns, not the least of which is the timeline. In this case many argued that management had a new TA ready to pull out if the first one failed. All we had to do was be brave enough to vote it down. Complete BS!!! Of course it devolves into elementary schoolyard accusations of cowardice. Complete nonsense! It is not fear, it's pragmatism plain and simple.

Each individual has their reasons for voting as they did. We should all respect the process and each other because there is still a lot at stake.
70%ers vs 30%ers tribalism is damaging to our cause.
It's our CBA, 100% of us.

 

Tell yourself whatever you need to so you can sleep well at night. I have accepted that this is OUR CBA. I admit there are very valid reasons many people voted yes. I just wish people would admit to themselves that we got played, and hopefully avoid making the same mistake again. And I'm not just talking about the vote. Big mistakes were made in the process as well. I don't know about you, but I'd like the chance at not being bottom of the industry forever.

 

How do you know for sure that we got played? It’s your opinion. No one knows for sure except the company whether or not they had another TA ready and waiting to go but I feel it would have been a longer and more drawn out process if it got voted down. I also don’t think if we voted it down the company would have given much, if anything back. I can guarantee they didn’t have another similar TA with delta rates, line bidding, and reserve drops ready and waiting to go.

I think most understood it probably wasn’t the absolute best we could get but I think most who were on the fence that voted yes felt it was better to lock this down now rather than risk working under the old rates and contract for who knows how long and risk another 9/11 or the economy crashing while we were fighting for an extra few more dollars an hour.


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How much did you pay for that Magic 8 Ball that assures you that you know all the facts for what would’ve been?

Gotta love how everyone’s a “no” voter after a vote closes. You’d swear the last two failed to ratify by 75/25 by the hot air of the group...

 

You’re absolutely right, but pilots will always pull the ladder up behind them. You’d be surprised at the number I talked to that said “I’m not on reserve anymore I don’t care.” The contract is what it is but when people complain about it I simply ask them if the voted for it........


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Hahhaa but you know what assuming does...this will be my 18th year 121

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Honestly rsv without dropping isn’t all that bad compared to a lot of other places and we have many guys that bid it on purpose so I don’t really know what the puma is so upset about.

In his defense. There were plenty of 15 yr FOs at USair that never got senior. Seniority is all timing and longevity doesn’t necessarily correlate to more seniority. It’s honestly a moot point for anyone hired here during growth. When we take our last airplane then people can start complaining as some will likely be junior for a LONG time. Right now everyone is moving unless he’s in ACY so quit the complaining.