I like that we require 4,000 hours total time to upgrade. There’s regional captains upgrading with much less, so obviously it can be done. However, nothing can replace exposure and experiences when it comes to judgment calls in the cockpit. That said, 4K hours to upgrade is going to be incompatible with our growth plans and attrition levels. This is going to be problematic as we trend closer and closer to hiring CFIs with wet ATPs. We lost 53 pilots in January (61 if you include resignation notifications going into February). With the current hiring goal of 90/month (possibly more), we’re mostly going to be retaining pilots who are not yet competitive for the Big 6.

Do you all think we’re going to have our growth stifled due to lack of experience?

 

“The Company may change the minimum qualifications set forth in paragraph G.11 above for any status or adopt min-imum qualifications for a new status under the following conditions:”

Those requirements will go the way of the Dodo as soon as they need them too, just as 4,000 min time to get hired went away

 

Exactly. Simple as that. Though I agree with the sentiment of the OP, it’s not ideal but it is what it is.

 

When I was hired in the regional industry they wouldn't even consider you unless you had 3500 hours.

It took 8 years to upgrade with several years of reserve.

I think 4,000 hours to take command of a 110 million aircraft, is more than appropriate not only for demonstrating patience and commitment, but building critical experience.

A fancy type rating is useless if you don't have the indoctrination to flight crew management and developing your own hybrid of leadership by observing and being mentored by those before you.

 

Good thing the company can’t hire outside instructors to do the flight training of pilots, doing the company’s bidding to get pilots on the line. I like the fact we have seniority list Spirit Airbus pilots deciding who gets sent to the line and who doesn’t.

And I don’t think the 4000 TT will be the issue, but some of the other requirements for upgrade. But they will change too

 

Yup. Better come to terms with the right seater still accidentally placing a knee board with kitchen timer on one leg, and or the left seater on a DH having frayed pants where the straps from those knee boards used to ride.

It’s where things are headed for everyone, but we’re on deck at the ULCC’s once the regionals go tango uniform.

 

I think we hire enough guys over 4000 for it to be a nonissue. If you’re mid pack and over 4000 and the top FO has 3500 guess who is going to upgrade. Upgrades don’t stop because the number one FO doesn’t have the time

 

Command is Command.

Tell your story to a regional turboprop CA with 2000 hours total time flying 8 legs/day and see what they have to say about it. I would argue that their job is way harder than hours. (I was once one of them.)

But for the love of the 8 lb 6 oz baby Jesus, don't tell Sully that!

 

In my 2.5 years here I’ve found that 95% of the CA’s seem to be great, honestly fantastic all around. Knowledgeable, kind, easy to work with, professional.

The other 5% have made my jaw drop with utter unprofessionalism and lack of regard for SOP and safety. Every member of that 5% I’ve encountered has been here 10+ years and let the age/entitlement/seniority/Captainitis erode away whatever professionalism they had when they were hired. I could write paragraphs about the egregious behavior I’ve seen.

On the contrary, the less experienced CAs I’ve flown with have never - in my personal experience - done these things or behaved this way, including all the sub-2000 hour regional CAs I flew with.

Training/professionalism/culture is equally as valuable as experience in my book, not that I want the 4000 hour rule to change.
I’m less worried about recruiting lowering their hour minimums and more worried about them letting in these clowns that don’t have the respect for this job that they should. A ‘kid’ my age shouldn’t have to look left at someone with 5x my experience and twice my age and cringe at the way he is handling the operation or treating his crew/pax. Stuff I never saw at the regionals. But again, that’s only 5%, maybe less. Most of you guys are great mentors and set an example.

I’m not trying to start a generational war here but I genuinely think the biggest threat to this airlines safety record and overall reputation is about 30 fairly senior pilots, and not the “inexperienced” ones that have to whip out the FOM when solving issues at the gate.

 

Most of them came and stayed at a 10-20 airplane operation because no one else would take them. Some great guys in that generation but generally the crazies are from that time.