There are no impressions yet.

Rumor going around is the company is motivated to get something done. Maybe not a final TA but something in the short term at least comparable to B6 rates by the end of the year. That’s not good enough obviously but at least it’s something until a deal is reached.

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other- see which one fills up faster.

This^^^

Perhaps if the vote actually goes through JB would apply some pressure to try to manage NK attrition. Perhaps not. I’m not all that sure that JB is trying to buy NK for their pilot group. They have a lot of 320ceos that are long in the tooth. They may just be buying an order book of newer and more fuel efficient aircraft and whatever of the existing pilot group happens to have stuck around. Yeah, they too have NEOs on order, but clearly a lot of aircraft are being bought for replacement, not expansion, including replacement of their 190s in the near future.

Which is another thing causing NK FOs to look elsewhere. The days of three year upgrades at NK are pretty much gone for good. You can probably upgrade faster at AA, UA, or DL, if you don’t mind eternal reserve in SFO, LAX, or EWR.

Oh man, there's a few on this thread about to have an epic meltdown after reading this

What is the most junior upgrade right now?

What is currently the most junior CA? And what’s the mock showing for that?

The mock assuming we are going to hire and keep an additional 300 FOs before the ‘what-if’ about six months out? And not lose any of the ones we currently have? Or that NONE of the 200 FOs senior to the junior CA who have been holding back to avoid reserve elect to upgrade? And that we are going to actually take all the aircraft on order - and not retire any of them? Are you talking about THAT what-if?

I think there may be a copy of that in the library - it’s in the Fiction section. The only thing that might make that come true is if the attrition of junior CAs actually increases which IS possible. But yeah, that might briefly restore a three year upgrade if ALL those things happened. And the more senior of those people might even keep CA if the SLI goes well. They’d be on reserve a LONG time though.

I don’t know what it shows, hence why I asked :)

July 21 hire. Not accurate though.

I believe most junior CA award most recently went to an 8/19 hire

IDGAF about First Week (weak?) Openers. BTDT. Wake me up when we are ready for Last Week Closers. Last time the union published the old/new contract comparison. Unchanged language black, old language red, new language blue. Still remember reading reading the ever so important section 17, and the 5 or so words that had changed, and Bendo fighting over that for weeks.

I seem to remember section 9 taking what seemed like an entire year to TA…. And they want help in streamlining training?! Okaaaaaaay….
They wouldn’t have to train so many pilots if attrition weren’t so bad, which comes back to a few other sections in the contract not even remotely related to section 9….

And our S9 is still the worst out there. Don't expect DLA trip buys here, but the way the our LCAs totally run over seniority like it's not there.... They should have LCA bid like regular Captains. And put all of them on the FO no fly list so their trips stay open on the FO side, to be assigned for training or FO open time later.

No doubt! Been saying this for years! No seniority when it comes to LCA, total bs. CAs should be bought off their trips if they want them for training!

With the current attrition rate why exactly would upgrade times become longer and longer?

Because largely losing low seniority FOs, and cant keep making captains if there's no FOs to staff enough lines to justify more upgrades.

Most of the attrition has come from relatively senior FOs and junior captains, with a mix of lower seniority people.

I hear this a lot on the line. Captains are upset at LCA when they didn't do anything to deserve it. And they don't even pick the trips they're on. Maybe they should get what their seniority warrants but that shouldn't open up to scrutiny from their peers.

Yeah but, a wise-man once said: If you ain’t first, you’re last.

Ok, let's play your imaginary game.

Make believe numbers let's say our current pay compared to the legacies puts us within a 15% delta of earning potential.

We go ahead and accept a 'good deal' on paper, then the legacies make their deals.

After all the deals are made our earning potential compared to the legacies only puts us at a 25% delta.

WOW, glad we were first though ! we can hang our hats on being first ! what a an achievement !!! we should be sooooo proud !!!

GTFOH

maybe we can get a clause in our cba that says our pay can never trail legacy airbus pay by more than x percentage.

On the flip side, how much might we lose if we drag this out two plus years staying on the same contract until the JCBA? Not only do we lose the money we might have made, we make a low ball JCBA offer look better, because it would be an even greater improvement over the current contract than an interim LOA or contract would have been.

Let’s be real, NK already lags B6 rates by ~25%, and they opened negotiations already. Simply pegging NK pay to B6 pay would start the ball rolling quicker, provide more short term gain, and set NK AND B6 pilot groups up better for a higher joint expectation on the JCBA. And don’t overlook the time value of money. $$ in your 401k today are worth more than the same dollars in their two years from now - unless you are buying Bolivian tin futures or something.

So when the first over leveraged legacy gets forced into bankruptcy and the judge forces a concessionaire contract on their pilot group the pay goes down? Be sure to build an only upward ratchet into that clause.

Can we please stop this. No one is doing the NC any favors here. Let them do their job instead of undermining them.

couldn’t agree more . Well stated.

Not to mention how stupid some of these ideas sound. People can vote when it comes time to vote.

Yes that’s pretty much what I meant. Our pay doesn’t always have to trail by xxx amount… just can never trail more than xxx

maybe because nobody has any faith in the NC or company.

Do you think posting here will help?

dont think what 5-10 pilots say on a forum has any affect on negotiations.

flashback to TRO……

You’d be wrong.

I didn’t think social media could have any affect on an insurrection happening. The voice of a few is on the internet can turn into the thoughts of many.

Haha. This statement just shows how new you are.

First Week Openers
 

You must be new here……


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Yeah, look at what happened at UA when their NC and MEC tried to sell the pilots down the river with the concessionary TUMI TA. The MEC recalls sent the company back pedaling pretty quickly. By and large I think expressing pilot expectations online is a good thing, as long as one doesn’t cross the line to publicly advocating illegal work actions which might get the pilot group in trouble. Otherwise the MEC might think you’d be willing to sell out all commuting reservists for a suitcase or something. Or screw over all the new hires for “leverage.”

Loving this first year pay leverage! That pay is perfect until we get gains for everyone.

Anddddddddd go….

NOOB! Come on. You work for NK and don't know?

The US District Court Judge for the Southern District of Florida has entered the chat.

Have you seen anyone on here advocating for illegal things? Nope. Just people throwing pay rates around.