First Week Openers
 

Will we get any info from our NC about this week’s negotiations, or do we not hear anything until all is said and done and it’s time for a vote?

You’ll most likely hear “progress was made in the areas we’re focused on”. That’s about it.

Figured as much, thanks!

Last time around the NC would put out a com towards the end of the day. And as Sioux8 said, it often had “progress was made, but significant differences remain”…

Yeah I just how it is all cloak and dagger like they are negotiating a nuclear arms deal.

What was the quote?
“Although progress was made, significant differences remain”



(Haha. Just saw Tranquility had the same quote)

So with 27 more meetings schedule until December does that mean we will see nothing until after December and possibly March? Or is there any remote possibility of a temporary change to things like compensation to slow the bleeding?


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All it means is they freed up their calendars to meet, usually flip flopping between Miramar and Herndon. It has nothing to do with when a deal will/can be made.

Bendo usually likes to be away from Miramar for the holiday meltdown.

I would love to be wrong, but if history is any indicator we won't see anything by December or even March of next year.

Eventually, even the CAs on reserve will be gone and the wet-ink ATPs and Aussies they are recruiting won’t have enough 121 time to upgrade. At that point they either raise pay or start downgrading CAs.

be cheaper to dual seat qual all captains…im super against this unless it pays 200% above guarentee every time it happens

No one on here can give you a realistic answer. This negotiating environment and level of pilot attrition has never been seen before. Everyone is pulling from prior negotiation experiences. I'm a new hire and haven't been through any TA or CBA negotiation but I don't see how we don't see a TA presented in the next couple of months.

And that is where I stopped reading.

Literally couldn't care any less.... Please tell me about the last time you were in these circumstances while the company and union attempted to negotiate a TA. We'll all sit here and wait patiently.

And you popped out of the womb as a little Jimmy Hoffa, union/contract genius. You’ve been through negotiations.. great .. perhaps you wear your merit badge on your Karbon ? That and $2.50 will get you a bus fare.

new-hires Have opinions too. And as a non new hire I agree with him. Pay hikes coming.

I agree too. This isn’t like the contracts before for those who have seen this a few times. Unprecedented times, they can’t run from the pressures on them now. Money is coming.

The same negotiations that netted us substantial QoL losses for chump change improvements? I'd be embarrassed to say that out loud.

I could be wrong but I think anyone that knows spirit management would be extremely surprised to see anything before a JCBA w JetBlue. These guys will literally pass outlandish proposals on things they don’t even care about just to waste our time for months on the topic. And then they will get restraining orders on us. This is a marathon and we are asking what happened in the first meeting?

lol you always get so bent out of shape

Let them play their old school games. If Alaska or a big 4 get a pay raise first it will just raise the bar. I almost don’t want to be the first Airbus pilot to get a pay raise….

This guy right here, is right.

Unless we get substantial raises across the board AND significant contract/QoL improvements there is no reason to be first.

I respect your opinion and admire your enthusiasm, but your optimistic outlook on negotiations was preceded with "I'm new and have never been through this before..." No offense kid, but you just don't know what you don't know.

There's no reason to try to get others hyped up over the prospect of a TA by years end. Now if these wild circumstances make that happen then great, I'd love to be wrong but I certainly wouldn't put money on it. You should seriously consider searching this forum back to 2016-17 to get a better idea of who we're dealing with.

If we’re negotiating on current legacy rates then the joke is on us. I don’t think our NC is that naive.

A me too could also be added in case we do get leap frogged in short order.

The biggest obstacle is that people aren’t leaving for pay only. It’s a factor, but people are leaving for seniority progression and to fly wide bodies eventually. Spirit can’t solve those problems.

They can by providing a real QOL and paying WB pay on a narrow body. And yes I’m serious

I agree, and thats a lump that Spirit, SWA and the like have to deal with.

But at a certain point, "money talks and bs walks." I think 90% of us couldnt care less if the call sign had "heavy" in it, as long as the money and qol is right.

Probably more like 70% IMHO but yeah.

We don't have to solve ALL attrition and never will as long as there is 15k retirements at AA, etc, etc we just have to just have to be XX% of what we expect the new legacy rates to be, or wait to see what the legacy rates are. Though... in our unique situation, I reckon a stop gap LOA until a merger contract could possibly work too.

Sure, but that will never happen under this management team.

Are the early open discussions solely focused on a TA or are they also talking about a mou for the short term?

You ever notice how each pilot group thinks their management is the worst, or close to it? Go to any subforum and its pilots talking about how their management is the worst and how inept they are.

We only know what the Union tells us.


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Only airbus? I would want to include Southwest and other Boeing operators.

Alaska is mostly boeing…..

Except he makes more sense than you do. I’m guessing an AIP in 90 days or less.

Just one of the many examples against everyone's "shortage will fix everything quickly" line of thinking.

After 2 years in formal Section 6 negotiations without "any meaningful headway" Southwest Airline's pilot union has voted in favor of federal mediation. - From Thursday

We have people leaving Spirit for SWA, not the other way around. People are not leaving SWA for legacy carriers the same rate they are here. So SWA's stagnation isnt comparable. A better comp for us are the regional airlines, which like us, are stepping stones currently.

Our management is pretty close to the worst, but they are most certainly *not* inept. They're extremely ept. Like it was said, just look at what happened 5 years ago. I'll save you the boredom of yet another soapbox.

This is true coming from a regional pilot.

This is verbatim coming from a current Spirit FO who has a CJO with Delta to me. “Just come to Spirit and get the type rating. The training pay and first year pay is crap, but you’ll get picked up by a major in your first year anyway.”

I’d go to frontier to get the type and an increase in pay for the time you’re there….. but that’s just me.

What's the impression that with these negotiations, the training pay will be fixed?