Except that’s not what is happening. The company doesn’t just offer a raise while we negotiate “real pay rates”. We have something they need, relief on raising first year pay whenever they choose. This isn’t “free money”, they are trying to buy something from us. It is very important to understand that.

I was shocked reading this. After seeing the JetBlue rates I can’t believe this pilot group would even entertain this TA.

Spirit will have to go find more money. Not saying they won’t or they can’t but those are possibilities. This TA was put on credit.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t they take out a loan for $600 Million? The TA is worth $469 Million over two years. Pretty big piece of the pie.

I’m not saying this to be mean but you must be new here. I’m a solid no voter but after 20 years of flying for various airlines I’d honestly be surprised if it doesn’t pass. Pilots will sell their souls for about $1. Right now we actually have leverage and when this mess goes through the company can raise first year pay at will, which is the only reason they are coming to the table right now. If they could raise first year pay whenever they wanted none of the rest of us would be included in that like we are now. After looking at Alaska rates and JB rates this should be an easy No vote for the group but I’m not holding my breath.

He is a Frontier pilot. Would love to see the F9 guys over there do some of the heavy lifting that they claim NK guys are supposed to do. Odds are we will be through the JCBA while they are applying for mediation with Franke at the NMB level.

I’m looking forward to seeing these huge gains by the F9 guys once NK is gone. Because they make it sound easy enough, “just vote it down” and on comes another truck full of money.

IMO it is certain to pass. I thought there was no chance it passes but I literally haven’t flown with anyone who wasn’t voting yes on it. Disappointing

Assuming the rest is for the FAs but not to say they couldn’t give us the rest and let the FAs spin their wheels for a while. There’s always a wide eyed Walmart greeter with dreams of overnighting in St. Louis ready to fill the void.

It’s a shell game. They took a lone from a holding company that holds the points program.

I read somewhere that they used the rest of the money to consolidate debt or something to that effect.

For everyone so concerned that the company is losing money our ceo wasn’t the 5th highest paid in the industry and spirit is only the 10th largest airline. Teddy is paid more than Frontier, JB, Alaskan, Hawaiian CEO’s give the fact that two of those airlines are larger than spirit he’s overpaid.

CEO compensation has never correlated to the health of a company. Sad, but true.

They took a loan against their credit card loyalty program to pay off notes due this year, at a higher interest rate than the note they are paying off

It’s a “rob Peter to pay Paul” move except the new money is almost double interest rate they have on that loan now. So their loan servicing expenses just increased too.

Spirit will use some of that to pay off the note and the other is to probably go towards our contract, FAs and I think either the dispatchers or mechanics are up too.

They will be in the red this year so this is more debt to keep them afloat.

What a fantastically horrible job they are doing. This is some of the reason why many of us feel a bird in the broke ass company hand is worth more today than a chance they come back tomorrow.

I honestly couldn’t care less what the executives get paid. That’s their business it has zero correlation to what we do or should get paid. I would love for more pilots to think like executives when it comes to negotiating compensation though. The company’s financial status shouldn’t be considered when negotiating the value you bring as an employee.

Unfortunately, a CBA has massive financial repercussions. Though I agree that we bring value to the company, we can’t aim for something fiscally unattainable. The biggest thing is that we don’t know where the fiscal line is that says how much is too much.

I absolutely agree with that.

so then they should all pay us $700/hour no problem then?

If that’s what the market rate is then yes.

just another reason you can’t have a serious debate with a No voter…

$300/hr narrowbody rates sounded crazy a few years ago. $380 A320 and $383 A321 rates sounded crazy until Delta AIP’d it. Supply and demand. Inflation. Etc.

Price of eggs has gone up almost 50% in a year, apparently due to low supply. Not saying we are eggs, but still.

It actually has. Lower CEO compensation related to higher long term profitability.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/best-pa...ies-1469419262

Inflation has nothing to do with it. This contract cements our place as a bottom tier airbus operator. We are giving up quite a bit of leverage, and they didn’t give us a raise out of the goodness of their hearts. I understand the NC’s position, but we have leverage and squandered it for a contract that’s in line with old legacy contracts.

Not sure about your reading comprehension here. I really thought I said the rates for our TA should have been way higher.....

a misleading lie you guys keep saying over and over again to scare people…yet it’s not true at all.

Not fooling me

Over 50 million egg laying chickens died from an Avian Flu outbreak in 2022, not the best example.

We agree, I am just saying leave inflation out of the equation, it has nothing to do with our pay rates and never will. I guess you could argue for a short term contract, it should be factored in, but it’s clear we won’t be industry leading in that regard.

I don’t agree with the “3 bites at the apple” approach the NC is taking, but oh well. I said my peace with my vote.

That isn’t what I was saying. Somebody said look at Teds paycheck, we must be doing fine. I was saying that doesn’t necessarily correlate.

Boy that NC PowerPoint really spooked you eh? The next time you snuggle into the cockpit, rifle through the paper work and find the sheet of paper with City pairs at the top, all the suggested routings for your flight. The last line of each route are the operating costs in $dollars, the greatest of which by a wiiiiiide margin is always fuel. The next is time, which is inclusive of all the crew and other costs divided by the flight time. Then occasionally you have overflight costs for Cuba or Colombia etc.

Add all those up and get the operating costs for that particular flight. Now take what you think industry standard compensation would cost them additionally to what you make now per hour for both pilots, multiply that by your block time, and divide it by that total for the other costs. It’s nothing, it’s a rounding error.

Paying us the market rate for narrow body crews is NOT what is going to prevent the company from turning a profit.

I laughed :-)

“Arguably, it is possible that management could decide to return to the bargaining table quickly and offer more money. But throughout negotiations we need to deal with probabilities rather than possibilities. Based on our collective experience, and due to Spirit’s current financial situation, in our opinion this is unlikely. And in the unlikely event they are open to improving the TA, it may not happen on a timetable that is acceptable to our pilot group. We can look to the UAL negotiations as a recent example. The UAL/ALPA TA was put out for pilot ratification in June and then voted down. The parties have returned to the bargaining table, but to date no new TA has been announced and the timetable for one is unclear.” -SPA_ExecSummary

Don’t be unrealistic guys. If I could vote it would be a yes and then come back to the table during the successful or failed merger. Y’all can argue for Delta plus in about two years.

They must be realllllly concerned about the current vote tally….

Looks that way, doesn’t it. Hopefully people vote on what’s in front of them.

I assume this was all pre-planned. They’re putting out information (in favor of their point of view) slowly and consistently to try to sway opinions (disclaimer, I agree with their opinion).

In Happy Gilmore terms we call this, "just tap it in, just tap it in"

Heard an interesting thing on my last trip. Theory that if the JB NE alliance goes through, they'll use it as leverage with the feds to disband it and to rubber stamp the merger faster. If that happens, we'll be locked into whatever we have at the time since we will be under JB control. Not sure what the time line could be with this to happen but an interesting situation if it expedites fed approval, delaying a TA for a few more bucks could really hurt over the next few years.

My favorite part is using United as an example… you know, the pilot group who had to recall their leadership to finally get a something worthwhile…

We'll get em next time!

In this industry you will never “get ‘em next time”, especially when you have a limitless goal post. You in particular will always want more. Let the “yes” voters have a voice and stop canceling peoples opinions that are opposite of yours.

I didn't cancel anyone. Yes and No voters have the same voting power. I just think it's funny that our union lanyards say "Building Our Legacy", but the first 30 minutes of the road show is the union telling us we aren't in the same league as legacies. Meanwhile, Ted is one of the highest paid CEOs in the industry and can't turn a profit.