Spirit diminishing QOL fact or rumor
10-06-2023 | 03:07 AM
#102
Bluediver the REAL deal
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 591
Likes: 44
At every airline on the planet they need a certain number of pilots to work on Christmas. Lets say 500. At every other airline there are going to be more people that want that day off than are able to get it off. At most other airlines the pilots who want that day off bid it and can either hold it off or cannot and go to work. And yet at Spirit because you are able to trade trips around better than others that somehow means no one who wants a holiday off has to work on a holiday? It literally doesn't matter if the way a pilot is forced to fly on a holiday is determined by bidding, reserves coverage, trip swapping, a lottery, a singing contest, or a gladiatorial fight to the death. The fact is those trips have to be covered, and there will always be more people who want those days off then can get them. How is that math so difficult? I like Spirits DTZ and grid rules, but some of you deny the math behind holiday coverage, and act like everyone else is crazy, and it drives me insane.
I choose Gladiatorial fight to the death. Then one of them doesn’t have to work ever again. Let’s get that in JCBA. Company could sell it on pay perview and show it on board for a special price making a great profit benefiting the rest of the pilots who are left to work because the “cliff” is gone in the profit sharing language. Great idea.
10-06-2023 | 04:00 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,235
Likes: 210
Can't say so just because you maybe know 2 or 3 people at each Airline, if that. Sample size is too small to make that conclusion. Do you know the QOL of a lot of the widebody UAL peeps, how about a lot of the Captains on narrowbody Delta who gets the system working for them?
By this logic, this is all of our cases. QOL is also largely subjective, but little things like schedule flexibility are some way to measures QOL in a tangible way regardless of airline.
At the end of the day, that's simply your opinion, which is fine. As long as you know that. Driver gave you an idea of what his QOL is like and all you can think about is "how good we have it". You're sounding like some of the bluejuicers we have over here. You're drunk on the NK QOL mantra. No one is saying there aren't stuff we need to keep, just please don't go into JCBA thinking you need to choose QOL over compensation when your back is against the wall, let's go for both.
I’m his QOL is fine for 12+ years at JB. Again, the point is that we don’t have to wait 12+ years to have good QOL. This isn’t some opinion off of a brochure, this is real tangible QOL that I, and many others, are getting to experience. Blue just disregards it as luck. Which is fine, but it doesn’t make him right.
All that said, I agree we shouldn’t give up pay for QOL or vise versa. The concern is that people like Blue will give up QOL for pay. That’s all.
By this logic, this is all of our cases. QOL is also largely subjective, but little things like schedule flexibility are some way to measures QOL in a tangible way regardless of airline.
At the end of the day, that's simply your opinion, which is fine. As long as you know that. Driver gave you an idea of what his QOL is like and all you can think about is "how good we have it". You're sounding like some of the bluejuicers we have over here. You're drunk on the NK QOL mantra. No one is saying there aren't stuff we need to keep, just please don't go into JCBA thinking you need to choose QOL over compensation when your back is against the wall, let's go for both.
I’m his QOL is fine for 12+ years at JB. Again, the point is that we don’t have to wait 12+ years to have good QOL. This isn’t some opinion off of a brochure, this is real tangible QOL that I, and many others, are getting to experience. Blue just disregards it as luck. Which is fine, but it doesn’t make him right.
All that said, I agree we shouldn’t give up pay for QOL or vise versa. The concern is that people like Blue will give up QOL for pay. That’s all.
10-06-2023 | 04:26 AM
#105
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
I explained clearly, that I have NEVER worked a Christmas at Blue. Never worked a major holiday I didn't want to. Had probably 98% of weekends off over my entire career here.
And you say that is fine for someone with 12+ years, but what about those more junior??? Do you not understand that my 12+ years INCLUDES year 1-2-3-4-5-etc??? I was junior once as well, we all were!
You're drunk on a keg of lies, filled with fantasy and illusion. You've had it explained by me. A very intelligent Delta pilot also chimed in. There is a simple basic fact you just aren't getting. The proportion of ANY given airlines pilots who work holidays and weekends is exactly the same, and is determined by how much of the airlines schedule is flown on those given days. You can't overcome gravity. Those flights ARE covered. A CBA can marginally shift a small percentage of those flights to more junior reserves, but that's it. The same proportion of pilots get forced to work those critical staffing days.
And you say that is fine for someone with 12+ years, but what about those more junior??? Do you not understand that my 12+ years INCLUDES year 1-2-3-4-5-etc??? I was junior once as well, we all were!
You're drunk on a keg of lies, filled with fantasy and illusion. You've had it explained by me. A very intelligent Delta pilot also chimed in. There is a simple basic fact you just aren't getting. The proportion of ANY given airlines pilots who work holidays and weekends is exactly the same, and is determined by how much of the airlines schedule is flown on those given days. You can't overcome gravity. Those flights ARE covered. A CBA can marginally shift a small percentage of those flights to more junior reserves, but that's it. The same proportion of pilots get forced to work those critical staffing days.
10-06-2023 | 04:43 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
I can’t comment on AA or UAL but at Delta I routinely dropped a large portion of my schedule and Cherry picked the open time. Typically credited about 1500 hours a year without working hard.
Last edited by sailingfun; 10-06-2023 at 04:57 AM.
10-06-2023 | 04:51 AM
#107
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 270
Likes: 4
If you were at Spirit you could have credited 3000 hours a year of credit without working a single weekend, holiday, day with bad weather, or day the Patriots are playing. /s
10-06-2023 | 04:56 AM
#108
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Don't forget your anniversary. They don't have to work those either. Especially if it falls on July 4th. No NK work on July 4th.
10-06-2023 | 05:23 AM
#109
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
The point is, the company must staff more for red/ green coverage. This results in more opportunity for holidays off. This results in more opportunities for 200%.
The risk in the JCBA is the purchasing entity has a larger pilot group that doesn't value this QOL contracted agreement.
It will be given away. It won't even be sold for something for the pilot group.
Sad.
The risk in the JCBA is the purchasing entity has a larger pilot group that doesn't value this QOL contracted agreement.
It will be given away. It won't even be sold for something for the pilot group.
Sad.
10-06-2023 | 05:29 AM
#110
Bluediver the REAL deal
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 591
Likes: 44
Something not highlighted in any of these threads that I’ve seen. Do NK Reserves have any ability to shift their awarded days? Can they drop reserve days? Are they aloud to X/Y or are they stuck with what they get?
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