Q3 2023 Earnings
10-27-2023 | 06:51 AM
#41
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 87
Likes: 6
Maybe if we served some of the more popular destinations like MSY DEN ORD etc more than just once a day instead of flying half empty planes to/from South American airports we would be able to turn a profit. Why do we fly 2 flights a day to/from DFW to FLL? Those planes are always full.. how about more frequent flights between IAH or DFW to MSY? Again always full but yet we keep sending half full planes down to Central America and base 90 pct of our business model in MCO and FLL… there are plenty of other destinations we can serve that don’t have to flow through FL but yet the upper mgt refuses to budge from thinking that FL is only place our passengers want to go…try to fly to the Pacific Northwest and you have to go through Vegas? Why???? Management doesn’t care and the people who figure out our routes need to get their head checked. Friend wanted to fly from DFW to MSY on our 1 flight a day, but to get back to DFW they had to connect through FLL… no wonder people don’t fly on us as management makes it impossible to travel,to/from destinations other than LAS FLL air MCO without it being a pain i the butt. Rant over flame away if you must but until Spirit stops thinking the world revolves around over saturated often weather limited FL they will have a hard time turning a profit.
10-27-2023 | 07:13 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...he-end-of-2025
I take it that the ability to change the removal of the remaining A319s from the fleet next year is not an option? 15 A319s are to be removed in 2024 per the article.
I take it that the ability to change the removal of the remaining A319s from the fleet next year is not an option? 15 A319s are to be removed in 2024 per the article.
They don’t want them. They have expensive inspections coming up to keep them in service. The thing is that people literally don’t want to fly on us. The neo issue isn’t great but if we didn’t have this neo issue the company would be even worse off imo. We’d be parking airplanes for lack of demand instead of engines. At least this way maybe we get a nice check from PW
All of this is hypothetical and it's not like I've seen the contract with the companies that are getting our A319s...it just seems like paying for the inspections and then having those A319s flying again would be helpful right now given on average that 26 planes per month will be grounded next year and 41 total by the end of 2024. That being said I don't know how expensive or time consuming those inspections on the A319s would be.
10-27-2023 | 07:52 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 278
as a commuter that works for a legacy, I’ve used Spirit quite a few times. I have to say that the pilots, FAs, and Gate Agents are absolutely wonderful to me. Like, fantastically nice and helpful.
while standing at the gate, doing the people watching, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen so many hairnets and onesies (camo onesies, even). Add in some fluffy slippers and the picture is complete.
I’ve also, on more than one occasion, seen people get charged for carry on luggage during the boarding process, and every single time the customer is flabbergasted at the price for their two small bags ($180-ish, if I remember correctly). I know the pricing is listed when you buy a ticket, and I’m not saying the customer is right, but when that happens, it becomes pretty clear that the pricing model (from a consumer standpoint) only works if you have nothing to bring.
Why spend $200 on tickets, then have to spend another $200 on luggage (each way), when you could have just bought a ticket on another major carrier and have a better overall experience? One couple next to me got a sprite and some hummus/chips and it was like $15. Amusement Park pricing.
anyway, I really hope it all works out for all you Spirit employees. I have nothing but good to say about any of you I’ve ever come across.
while standing at the gate, doing the people watching, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen so many hairnets and onesies (camo onesies, even). Add in some fluffy slippers and the picture is complete.
I’ve also, on more than one occasion, seen people get charged for carry on luggage during the boarding process, and every single time the customer is flabbergasted at the price for their two small bags ($180-ish, if I remember correctly). I know the pricing is listed when you buy a ticket, and I’m not saying the customer is right, but when that happens, it becomes pretty clear that the pricing model (from a consumer standpoint) only works if you have nothing to bring.
Why spend $200 on tickets, then have to spend another $200 on luggage (each way), when you could have just bought a ticket on another major carrier and have a better overall experience? One couple next to me got a sprite and some hummus/chips and it was like $15. Amusement Park pricing.
anyway, I really hope it all works out for all you Spirit employees. I have nothing but good to say about any of you I’ve ever come across.
10-27-2023 | 08:07 AM
#44
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 29
From: baller, shot caller
Nobody here knows the answer to that, and the union has kindly asked pilots not to speculate about the trial online
10-27-2023 | 08:11 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
So the business model does work, people are just crybabies? No wonder we were so close to profitable.
10-27-2023 | 08:21 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 278
The model worked for years, but maybe it doesn't work at scale. I'm not an expert, but looking at random DFW to LAS flights, Spirit is $50 ($100 with a bag) and AA is close to $400. I think it is mainly things outside of the model that are killing the company. I'm just saying the people melting down because they have to pay $150 for a bag should have taken the ample opportunity to buy it ahead of time.
10-27-2023 | 08:49 AM
#47
Banned
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 671
Likes: 11
as a commuter that works for a legacy, I’ve used Spirit quite a few times. I have to say that the pilots, FAs, and Gate Agents are absolutely wonderful to me. Like, fantastically nice and helpful.
while standing at the gate, doing the people watching, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen so many hairnets and onesies (camo onesies, even). Add in some fluffy slippers and the picture is complete.
I’ve also, on more than one occasion, seen people get charged for carry on luggage during the boarding process, and every single time the customer is flabbergasted at the price for their two small bags ($180-ish, if I remember correctly). I know the pricing is listed when you buy a ticket, and I’m not saying the customer is right, but when that happens, it becomes pretty clear that the pricing model (from a consumer standpoint) only works if you have nothing to bring.
Why spend $200 on tickets, then have to spend another $200 on luggage (each way), when you could have just bought a ticket on another major carrier and have a better overall experience? One couple next to me got a sprite and some hummus/chips and it was like $15. Amusement Park pricing.
anyway, I really hope it all works out for all you Spirit employees. I have nothing but good to say about any of you I’ve ever come across.
while standing at the gate, doing the people watching, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen so many hairnets and onesies (camo onesies, even). Add in some fluffy slippers and the picture is complete.
I’ve also, on more than one occasion, seen people get charged for carry on luggage during the boarding process, and every single time the customer is flabbergasted at the price for their two small bags ($180-ish, if I remember correctly). I know the pricing is listed when you buy a ticket, and I’m not saying the customer is right, but when that happens, it becomes pretty clear that the pricing model (from a consumer standpoint) only works if you have nothing to bring.
Why spend $200 on tickets, then have to spend another $200 on luggage (each way), when you could have just bought a ticket on another major carrier and have a better overall experience? One couple next to me got a sprite and some hummus/chips and it was like $15. Amusement Park pricing.
anyway, I really hope it all works out for all you Spirit employees. I have nothing but good to say about any of you I’ve ever come across.
The model worked for years, but maybe it doesn't work at scale. I'm not an expert, but looking at random DFW to LAS flights, Spirit is $50 ($100 with a bag) and AA is close to $400. I think it is mainly things outside of the model that are killing the company. I'm just saying the people melting down because they have to pay $150 for a bag should have taken the ample opportunity to buy it ahead of time.
I think the problem with the ULCC model and why the ULCCs are stagnating is twofold.
One, people have figured out that the low fares are a mirage once all the fees are included. It's only a good deal if you bring a backpack to put under the seat with your own food and drinks. People have figured out that they can pay a little more for a legacy carrier, and get treated like humans and not greyhound bus passengers, and actually get where you're going somewhat on time.
Second, I think the ULCC model is failing because they cater to the low end of the economic spectrum. These people were flush with cash when the government was handing them "free" money during covid. Then they maxed out what little credit they had to keep the party going. Now the funds have run out and they aren't getting on planes. They are the canaries in the coal mine of our failing economy, and eventually it will work its way up until we see a crash worse than 2008 with foreclosures and bank failures. America learned nothing from that. We doubled down on spending money we don't have.
Anyhow, best of luck to all of you. If I was at a Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Jetblue or even Southwest, I'd be trying to get in at a legacy airline before the door slams shut. In fact, I'd probably want to have a couple thousand pilot furlough buffer below me, because that's probably coming within the next 2 years when the SHTF.
10-27-2023 | 09:04 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
The model worked for years, but maybe it doesn't work at scale. I'm not an expert, but looking at random DFW to LAS flights, Spirit is $50 ($100 with a bag) and AA is close to $400. I think it is mainly things outside of the model that are killing the company. I'm just saying the people melting down because they have to pay $150 for a bag should have taken the ample opportunity to buy it ahead of time.
Legacies will price their product to fill the planes. If the legacy planes are full, they don't offer Economy Basic.
I've priced out many city pairs where legacies were within a few bucks of ULCC pricing - without the inconvenient arrival/departure times.
10-27-2023 | 11:34 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 47
Every time I walk past a Spirit gate (and Frontier is worse), its looks like a riot at a homeless shelter or a bus station. I've never seen so many garbage bag suitcases and shabby looking people. And often, there's a lot of shouting and cell phone videoing going on. This seems particularly evident in places like DFW and ATL.
I think the problem with the ULCC model and why the ULCCs are stagnating is twofold.
One, people have figured out that the low fares are a mirage once all the fees are included. It's only a good deal if you bring a backpack to put under the seat with your own food and drinks. People have figured out that they can pay a little more for a legacy carrier, and get treated like humans and not greyhound bus passengers, and actually get where you're going somewhat on time.
Second, I think the ULCC model is failing because they cater to the low end of the economic spectrum. These people were flush with cash when the government was handing them "free" money during covid. Then they maxed out what little credit they had to keep the party going. Now the funds have run out and they aren't getting on planes. They are the canaries in the coal mine of our failing economy, and eventually it will work its way up until we see a crash worse than 2008 with foreclosures and bank failures. America learned nothing from that. We doubled down on spending money we don't have.
Anyhow, best of luck to all of you. If I was at a Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Jetblue or even Southwest, I'd be trying to get in at a legacy airline before the door slams shut. In fact, I'd probably want to have a couple thousand pilot furlough buffer below me, because that's probably coming within the next 2 years when the SHTF.
I think the problem with the ULCC model and why the ULCCs are stagnating is twofold.
One, people have figured out that the low fares are a mirage once all the fees are included. It's only a good deal if you bring a backpack to put under the seat with your own food and drinks. People have figured out that they can pay a little more for a legacy carrier, and get treated like humans and not greyhound bus passengers, and actually get where you're going somewhat on time.
Second, I think the ULCC model is failing because they cater to the low end of the economic spectrum. These people were flush with cash when the government was handing them "free" money during covid. Then they maxed out what little credit they had to keep the party going. Now the funds have run out and they aren't getting on planes. They are the canaries in the coal mine of our failing economy, and eventually it will work its way up until we see a crash worse than 2008 with foreclosures and bank failures. America learned nothing from that. We doubled down on spending money we don't have.
Anyhow, best of luck to all of you. If I was at a Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Jetblue or even Southwest, I'd be trying to get in at a legacy airline before the door slams shut. In fact, I'd probably want to have a couple thousand pilot furlough buffer below me, because that's probably coming within the next 2 years when the SHTF.
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