Spirt filed for Chapter 11 again
08-30-2025 | 06:49 AM
#41
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Joined: Oct 2009
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reasonable request being the key phrase. The mec could present a reasonable cost savings proposal in exchange for equity/future profit sharing equal to the dollar amount in savings. This was common last round of bankruptcies.
It’s likely a judge would reject management trying to impose some sort of draconian agreement. It’s difficult to do much with work rules. Most are Hard to quantify in a short period of time. Usually it’s pay rate, retirement and sick. Easy to show the math and management doesn’t want pilots using all their sick before leaving. Makes staffing difficult to predict.
It’s likely a judge would reject management trying to impose some sort of draconian agreement. It’s difficult to do much with work rules. Most are Hard to quantify in a short period of time. Usually it’s pay rate, retirement and sick. Easy to show the math and management doesn’t want pilots using all their sick before leaving. Makes staffing difficult to predict.
What seems reasonable and fair to the unions and employees doesn't seem to always match how the judge sees it.
in retrospect I came to the conclusion the judges rulings depend on his economic philosophy world view.
If he is pro corporate and antilabor he will rule along those lines.
08-30-2025 | 06:57 AM
#42
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
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08-30-2025 | 07:00 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
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From decades out of date experience at other airlines.
What seems reasonable and fair to the unions and employees doesn't seem to always match how the judge sees it.
in retrospect I came to the conclusion the judges rulings depend on his economic philosophy world view.
If he is pro corporate and antilabor he will rule along those lines.
What seems reasonable and fair to the unions and employees doesn't seem to always match how the judge sees it.
in retrospect I came to the conclusion the judges rulings depend on his economic philosophy world view.
If he is pro corporate and antilabor he will rule along those lines.
for that reason. Higher odds of drawing a labor friendly judge. Unfortunately we didn’t but the lawsuits were withdrawn when a ta was ratified.
Having said that judges don’t like to try and figure out cost savings with work rule changes. Time is limited. There’s multiple agreements being re negotiated. It’s not like a drawn out sec 6 negotiation. The mec can use that fact when negotiating to make the group whole in the future when profitability returns. Plenty of practice and there’s no logical reason management won’t agree to it. This is the exact scenario that makes work rules more valuable than rates imo. Cost’s being equal.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 08-30-2025 at 07:29 AM.
08-30-2025 | 07:58 AM
#45
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"Reasonable" is a very broad standard that could be written as "not unreasonable" .... going a step further "not totally crazy". It doesn't mean smartest, most logical, fairest or even equitable. 10th percentile and 90th percentile are equally reasonable.
08-30-2025 | 08:07 AM
#46
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
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So that’s always the risk when telling management to shove it, leave it up to a judge. But this airline won’t survive or fail under this pilot contract, no reason to give a cent.
08-30-2025 | 09:07 AM
#47
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2011
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If it comes to it (and I hope it doesn’t), strongly recommend holding firm on pay rates. They can get savings elsewhere. It takes multiple contract cycles to get one nostril back above water. Also, be smart about snapbacks, and use black and white language, with tiers. Lots of folks here have experience with this, and opinions will vary.
08-30-2025 | 09:32 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,747
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DL/NW pretty much the same.
If it comes to it (and I hope it doesn’t), strongly recommend holding firm on pay rates. They can get savings elsewhere. It takes multiple contract cycles to get one nostril back above water. Also, be smart about snapbacks, and use black and white language, with tiers. Lots of folks here have experience with this, and opinions will vary.
If it comes to it (and I hope it doesn’t), strongly recommend holding firm on pay rates. They can get savings elsewhere. It takes multiple contract cycles to get one nostril back above water. Also, be smart about snapbacks, and use black and white language, with tiers. Lots of folks here have experience with this, and opinions will vary.
08-30-2025 | 09:40 AM
#49
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 14
Likes: 4
buried at the end of the article
From WSJ, Aug. 29:
Spirit chairman Robert Milton said a deal with Frontier still makes logical sense, but Spirit has had inquiries from other airlines. He said Spirit has the right executive team in place, and that by going through the bankruptcy process now it can gain an advantage, whether it remains on its own or combines with another carrier. “If you’re smart, get on with it, do it with a sharp knife and not a blunt instrument, you come out in a far better position,” he said.
Spirit chairman Robert Milton said a deal with Frontier still makes logical sense, but Spirit has had inquiries from other airlines. He said Spirit has the right executive team in place, and that by going through the bankruptcy process now it can gain an advantage, whether it remains on its own or combines with another carrier. “If you’re smart, get on with it, do it with a sharp knife and not a blunt instrument, you come out in a far better position,” he said.
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