Originally Posted by MCDUmanipulator (Post 4027361)

how does getting rid of some of the lowest pay rates in the industry “drive our wages down”?

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 4027368)

An oversupply of labor to available jobs is a downward pressure on wages....

Originally Posted by MikeOxlong (Post 4027370)

Break even on a $500 million dollar loan/bailout is just about 2 years. NK employees pay roughly $225 million a year in income tax.

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 4027313)

Well since all these threads have totally derailed.. why not add my tirade.. really though, I get forums are no place for an attempt at a thoughtful response, so here goes nothing...

Obviously two things are being looked at so wrong here. First the idea that the vote coming to Congress is political, or ideological.. is honestly a joke.. it's money.. like all things money.. it's a cost/benefit analysis.. we've learned how to quantify the direct costs of an airline shutting down (lost ticket sales, lost tourism, lost tax revenues, lost unemployment insurance funds, and on and on).. Ted Cruz and his comments, great example.. he may ideologically not support government assistance, but when his vote comes to it, his district alone probably has $500mil+ in direct economic damage, if he doesn't ultimately vote for it. It's like the bank bailouts of 2008, no ideology supported the actions, yet they happened, why? Because the costs of doing nothing exceeded the costs of the bailout..

But secondly, man, I'm appalled at the number of people, supposedly fellow airline crews, almost excited at the thought of Spirit shutting down.. Obviously if you wake up in the morning, working for another airline, and feel the need to log into a forum and go to a Spirit thread so you can have a laugh at celebrating this place closing... You are most definitely saying something about who you are, deep down in your soul.. those who've done clearly need professional help.. there are scumbags on this earth, sure, but they're generally scavenging for their own benefit, but for you to have a need to kick others in the teeth so you feel better about your pathetic existence?? That places you beneath the scum of the earth..

But anyways, what benefit do you people think you'll see to your careers if Spirit should liquidate? Does that have an upward or downward pressure on your future wages? Downward, obviously... And what about your airlines ability to access future credit? And service debt? If liquidity seizes after Spirit liquidates, how does that help your career? If Spirit liquidated, say, a month ago, does anyone here think JB gets that $500mil line of credit they just got? So what happens to every JB pilot right now if Spirit had liquidated? Credit seizes, bankruptcy, furloughs, pay concessions.. yep.. all on the table if YOUR airline loses access to credit because Spirit liquidated.. so what the hell are some of you guys so happy about? That your airline might get a few extra ticket sales? I guarantee you the cost your career will pay, should a downward spiral in the industry start with liquidation of Spirit, I guarantee some of you (who don't even work for Spirit) will absolutely pay way more to your career than you gain when your airline sells a few extra tickets..

But alas, some of you really need to study 2008, learn from the children of 08.. downward spirals feed themselves, and much like how the collapse of Lehman Bothers about destroyed the entire banking system (even banks nowhere near related to them), the collapse of an airline far removed from your career can still have immense, adverse results, on your career progression..

So think long and hard about who you are as a person before you find happiness in the thought of Spirit collapsing.. that comment is to every Congressman about to vote on Spirit, as well as every fellow flight crew member who doesn't work for Spirit.. celebrating the demise of a fellow airline will come with a price you might pay, you just don't know what that price will be yet...

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 4027313)

Well since all these threads have totally derailed.. why not add my tirade.. really though, I get forums are no place for an attempt at a thoughtful response, so here goes nothing...

Obviously two things are being looked at so wrong here. First the idea that the vote coming to Congress is political, or ideological.. is honestly a joke.. it's money.. like all things money.. it's a cost/benefit analysis.. we've learned how to quantify the direct costs of an airline shutting down (lost ticket sales, lost tourism, lost tax revenues, lost unemployment insurance funds, and on and on).. Ted Cruz and his comments, great example.. he may ideologically not support government assistance, but when his vote comes to it, his district alone probably has $500mil+ in direct economic damage, if he doesn't ultimately vote for it. It's like the bank bailouts of 2008, no ideology supported the actions, yet they happened, why? Because the costs of doing nothing exceeded the costs of the bailout..

But secondly, man, I'm appalled at the number of people, supposedly fellow airline crews, almost excited at the thought of Spirit shutting down.. Obviously if you wake up in the morning, working for another airline, and feel the need to log into a forum and go to a Spirit thread so you can have a laugh at celebrating this place closing... You are most definitely saying something about who you are, deep down in your soul.. those who've done clearly need professional help.. there are scumbags on this earth, sure, but they're generally scavenging for their own benefit, but for you to have a need to kick others in the teeth so you feel better about your pathetic existence?? That places you beneath the scum of the earth..

But anyways, what benefit do you people think you'll see to your careers if Spirit should liquidate? Does that have an upward or downward pressure on your future wages? Downward, obviously... And what about your airlines ability to access future credit? And service debt? If liquidity seizes after Spirit liquidates, how does that help your career? If Spirit liquidated, say, a month ago, does anyone here think JB gets that $500mil line of credit they just got? So what happens to every JB pilot right now if Spirit had liquidated? Credit seizes, bankruptcy, furloughs, pay concessions.. yep.. all on the table if YOUR airline loses access to credit because Spirit liquidated.. so what the hell are some of you guys so happy about? That your airline might get a few extra ticket sales? I guarantee you the cost your career will pay, should a downward spiral in the industry start with liquidation of Spirit, I guarantee some of you (who don't even work for Spirit) will absolutely pay way more to your career than you gain when your airline sells a few extra tickets..

But alas, some of you really need to study 2008, learn from the children of 08.. downward spirals feed themselves, and much like how the collapse of Lehman Bothers about destroyed the entire banking system (even banks nowhere near related to them), the collapse of an airline far removed from your career can still have immense, adverse results, on your career progression..

So think long and hard about who you are as a person before you find happiness in the thought of Spirit collapsing.. that comment is to every Congressman about to vote on Spirit, as well as every fellow flight crew member who doesn't work for Spirit.. celebrating the demise of a fellow airline will come with a price you might pay, you just don't know what that price will be yet...

Originally Posted by AirportJunkie (Post 4027373)

WTF?! The whole industry fails if Spirit doesn’t get a bailout? JBs credit seizes?! This is not 2008 and to compare it to that is just dumb. You’re gonna need to do some more studying there bud

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 4027399)

So your contention is that creditors do NOT price in broader market risk when negotiating loan terms??? Interesting... And you call me dumb...

It's not 2008?? So the auto loan bailouts of 08 were because domestic auto manufacturing is MORE important to commerce and economic activity of the US than the domestic airline industry??

All around interesting points you make.. 🤔

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 4027368)

An oversupply of labor to available jobs is a downward pressure on wages....

Originally Posted by Midsomer (Post 4027408)

Finally what changes with a 500 million dollar investment? Does spirit cut deeper to make themselves smaller? That results in job losses also but as long as it doesn’t get you then that okay? The business fundamentals of spirit don’t work. While it may have in the past, the other carriers adapted while spirit didn’t. It’s a business model problem at spirit not a fuel problem. Fuel has only accelerated the fall.