Kirby was WRONG!
 

In just a few hours it will be 2026 and I’m proud to announce, Kirby was wrong! We are still here and more resilient and determined than ever. Kirby tried everything to put us out of business from mirroring our à la cart business model, undercutting prices on our routes, obsessively bad mouthing us, failed attempt to purchase targeted assets and last but not least teaming up with JetBlue to drive our FLL yields down. Well, we’re still here!

I’m so proud of this “down with the ship” pilot group. 2026 is going to be a great year for us!

Below is the list of the relentless “Spirit is liquidating by the end of 2025” cheerleaders.

Sorry guys, you were wrong.

Noisecaceller
SSlow
Flyokish
Name user
Friendly pilot
Nry8
Busboi
StoneQOLdcrazy
LNAVVNAVPATH
DIRKDIGGLER9999
GPULLRSHRSAILPLANES
CINCODEMAYO
Fettywap
Putzin
FW90
Halon1211
Washout
Symbian simian
Jules Winfield
Bluejuice01
Washout
Bluespoon
BoeingBrat
TAFsMATTER
PowderKeg
Checkgear
flier320
Jac3d

Washout made the list twice because he was/is such a tool huh?

I don't recall saying either way whether Spirit would go under. I honestly have no idea what's going to happen.

Show where anyone publicly said "in 2025" including Kirby.

Also you overstate how much United is trying to "put you out of business". Kirby is far more focused on Delta and American than a 2% market share ULCC. Also what "failed attempt to purchase target assets"?

Good luck in 2026. Hopefully someone acquires Spirit and brings over the pilots. Nobody here wants to see any pilots out of work. Nobody.

Incoming thread drift....

So let's say NK gets bought by a real airline (not Frontier) in the near future.

Can SPA ALPA negotiate a clause that lets all of the pilots who left during the BKs make a return for the new airline?

I recently heard of some airlines allowing pilots to come back and retain seniority, pay, etc if done within something like 6 months.

I know that starting over is a voluntary event, but it feels like a lot of us really didn't have much of a choice this specific effed up situation.

Furloughs yes, voluntary furloughs no, and no way in hell what you’re proposing.

Serious?

First, what airlines did you “recently hear” allow pilots who have resigned to come back and retain their seniority.

If you left, you left, short of those who took voluntary furloughs/furloughed and retain recall rights?

And do you think any NK pilot who guts it out and somehow hits the lottery with finding another seniority list, will want or advocate those who left, to come back?

Everyone who left had a choice
Most who stayed had a choice
Some who have stayed had no choice.

I dont remember which, but it was one of the regionals.

Everything else I kinda agree with, but was wondering which union has allowed this in the past.

I don't agree that people who left had a choice though.

Going concern statements, ch22, chopping the company in half, and imminent ch7 determined by pilot concessions isn't much of a choice from where I sit.

No way this should happen. Ever. (with exception of Furloughs obviously)

A few regionals had something where you could go back within x amount of months.

Everyone who left had a choice.

You had a choice to apply to AA
You had a choice to interview
You had a choice to fly out and tell them “why AA”
You had a choice to accept a class date
You had a choice to put your resignation in
You had a choice to no rescind it
You showed up to class with your wife, ate the dinner and got your AA wings

We all had a choice

Making a tough choice out of fear and concern of the unknown is still a choice. Don’t be soft and act like this wasn’t a choice. You’re on a legacy seniority list, enjoy the new opportunities and stop wondering “what if” NK gets bought by a “real airline,” especially when there is zero evidence of that coming true.

We can argue the finer points all night, but at the end of the day our careers at NK got destroyed.

It wasn't much of a decision, bro.

Nonetheless I'm happy to be at AA, regardless of how it happened.

Not calling you a liar, but at least one of the big 3 is forcing those furloughed to fully resign recall rights before joining on.

Apparently it was a recent change too

Quite a few who were furloughed last year and earlier this year are on both lists.

Yeah this is true. I'm honestly not sure of the logistics of how it worked or played out.

Sometimes airlines require you to resign your recall rights.

Some airline CBA's don't allow that to actually occur. Even if you send them a letter. In those cases the only way to resign rights is to non-respond to your final recall offer.

I believe those regionals only allowed you to retain longevity and pay, not seniority.

That would make more sense, but I've never actually seen it personally. It was just something I've heard pilots at other airlines bring up over the years.

I'm guessing that is something that their respective unions had secured for them.

In the history of this industry, there are the names of thousands of pilots who have ended up junior to where they would have been if they hadn't left the carrier their new carrier eventually ended up merging with. If the NK bros get scooped up in a merger, the guys who left that end up junior to their old number wouldn't be the first to experience it, nor will they likely be the last. It is what it is. Seniority by airline is stupid, but it's what we have. Make the best choice with the information you have and live with it, that's all you can do.

this sort of advice is how you’ll find yourself upside down on a legacy seniority list today. Listening to gramps Aviators from the 70s 80s 90s and very early 00s will have absolutely screwed you by ‘mentoring you’ into giving up 12 years on a Frontier, JetBlue, Spirit seniority list. At the same time, new guys getting into the industry today shouldn’t even think about signing up with a regional unless it has a direct no interview flow through to United, American, or Delta. United’s flow is a worthless gimmick so avoid theirs until it becomes more iron clad, Deltas is still questionable, American has the only real flow but this airline sucks the worst outta the three so that’s why their flow has to be strong. Southwest/Alaska will be nothing unless they make some serious moves quickly. Never ever go to an airline like Breeze or Allegiant trying to skip the line to a legacy. Stepping stone airlines Spirit, JetBlue, and Frontier are soon to be swallowed up. Southwest/Alaska better start eating or they will be next to be in the Spirit seat.

alt=""https://i.ibb.co/BKF46sY1/285-B1206-...9564-A13-D.jpg

I don’t want to rain on anyones Picnic nor hopes and dreams but the prudent thing to do is for those who are competitive for somewhere else to get their apps in. If they get a CJO they can probably finesse a 6 month delay if they want to keep their options open.
For those not yet competitive - fly your a$$es off until you ARE competitive.

I really hope that Spirit pulls through and those still there can retain their seniority in a merge, but that’s not the way I’d bet.

This right here is the perfect example of someone who unfortunately listened to an old timer pilot/thought they had union insider info/based their decision on the info they had. Yikes! Additionally, American ain’t allowing class date delays anymore. At best the poor guy is giving outdated info and doesn’t realize it anymore, at worst he’s lying.

Why would voluntary furloughs be treated any differently than involuntary? Somebody is still here on property getting a (concessionary) paycheck because someone else volunteered, right?

Can’t speak for AA, never even applied there. But you are right, I DID listen to my old timer NK CAs who said three years ago that if they had as little time at NK as I did, they’d put out apps in a heartbeat. And I valued their advice and did it.

Look, I realize that it’s a whole lot harder if you are giving up 10-12 years than if you are giving up 2 and a half, but economically I’m already at the break even point and my leaving meant one less more junior guy had to be furloughed.

So don’t worry about the “poor guy”, he’s a lineholder, already under 40% in seat, and although I might never make WBCA I’m looking at NBCA in a year or so, long before I’d have made it with NK furloughing and displacing people. I enjoyed my time at NK and was treated well there, but for me following the advice of those “old timer pilots” to put out apps was unequivocally the right thing to do.

None of which means I don’t have empathy for senior people who have built their lives around their current base and seniority. I understand not wanting to take a big economic hit with a potential base change and potential loss of QOL from starting all over again. I absolutely understand.

Their situation truly sucks, but it won’t be improved by somehow pretending it doesn’t suck.

Cheerleader, no. Eyes wide open, yes. I didn't even leave NK until the very end of 2025. Even stuck it out through two failed mergers and the first bankruptcy and thought things would at least be treading water-ish until that 2Q came out in August....

I’m enjoying watching everyone whose name is on the list slowly trickle in to defend themselves.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...ohB5/giphy.gif

What's the saying about counting your chickens?

I made a personal choice to leave. I have many good friends still there I do still care about. Only wanted to correct the "cheerleading" implication.

What I say and do is based on my own logical analysis and thoughts, not cheerleading or wishing for a bad outcome for anyone else.

The earlier they left, the longer the post about why they left, they leave.

They come home to roost? Be careful, the FAA thankfully stepped in where you’re concerned.

I am offended I was left off
please put me down for “by the end of 2026”

To the original poster,
I like your optimism, but it is way WAY to early to claim victory!

Kirby is wrong about a lot of things.
He's a little man (literally) with big ego.

Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure at least one or two allowed you to come back with seniority (maybe with a loss of the weeks/months you were gone, which is common with some other types of LOA).

Makes sense, especially with eras where people got stuck for years or decades by industry timing. It allows older senior pilots (who have families, mortgages, lives, kid's college looming) to take a shot at moving up, without betting their family's future on a training event. It's not a trivial decision, BTDT, and I had relatively recent training events and also the military kept my brain more engaged than say someone at a single-type regional who upgraded 15 years ago.

Makes sense for the airlines too, regionals clear their books of expensive lifers, and majors get more access to experienced pilots.

Very unlikely, SW and AS are too big to fail, the way the industry is currently structured. They might or might not be too big to preemptively merge with each other depending regulatory climate.

If the big three suppress SW/AS over many years, they might hypothetically shrink to the point where they become small enough to fail. But in the near/mid term if they struggled financially they would be allowed to be acquired.

Even B6 liquidating would be disruptive in the NE, kind of doubt they'd just be allowed to die either.

I'm glad NK made it through the holidays, and any pilots considering leaving are now within field goal range of the typical legacy pre-summer hiring ramp up.

But those finances do not look good. I don't claim absolutes, but I have trouble seeing the numbers in any positive light. Unless you assume creditors will keep pouring money in indefinitely, but I don't see that math either. Unless there's some crazy out-of-the-box solution in the works that just needs more time, but that kind of thing might not be good for labor.

Well we did make it to 2026, which is what Kirby said we wouldn’t do (several times). Yes, we’re not out of the woods yet.

IIRC, Republic allowed you to come back within a year of resignation if you left on good terms with bother Union AND the company. HR could just say “no” and that was that, but pilots at RPA did go back at previous longevity and seniority after failing out of another airline’s training program

I mean, we’re not out of the woods at all. IMO making it to 2026 means absolutely nothing. There is either a merger agreement being finalized, we shrink back to a small east coast leisure carrier or legacies turn up the pressure to drive us out of business in quick fashion. I don’t see NK ever rebounding to what it was

It’s funny how this troll (original poster) posts this thread like it means anything.

He lists names of people who never said anything about Jan 1, 2026 meaning anything, and then he targets Kirby, another troll.

Jan 1 2026 means nothing. Still losing money by the day and some are acting like progress has been made. Live to fight another day is important but to conflate it as being progress in the business is insane.

That's kind of what I was curious about. It's not exactly way out of left field then.

Not suggesting that it should be that way as I know there are varying opinions either way, but thanks for confirming that is has definitely happened before at certain carriers.