His comment doesn’t have to be the sole reason but it defiantly does matter. You spit out a huge amount of irrelevant copeium to justify getting a handout. Nothing that you said matters. Bottom line is when asked will they survive, Spirit said yes. That matters, and at that point going forward the hands of the government are clean. They owe Spirit nothing. You may have had an argument if Spirit explained the dire situation and consequences of the blocked merger. However they didn’t and NK is on its own.

When are you going to rename this to Kirby was RIGHT! ???

Well since all these threads have totally derailed.. why not add my tirade.. really though, I get forums are no place for an attempt at a thoughtful response, so here goes nothing...

Obviously two things are being looked at so wrong here. First the idea that the vote coming to Congress is political, or ideological.. is honestly a joke.. it's money.. like all things money.. it's a cost/benefit analysis.. we've learned how to quantify the direct costs of an airline shutting down (lost ticket sales, lost tourism, lost tax revenues, lost unemployment insurance funds, and on and on).. Ted Cruz and his comments, great example.. he may ideologically not support government assistance, but when his vote comes to it, his district alone probably has $500mil+ in direct economic damage, if he doesn't ultimately vote for it. It's like the bank bailouts of 2008, no ideology supported the actions, yet they happened, why? Because the costs of doing nothing exceeded the costs of the bailout..

But secondly, man, I'm appalled at the number of people, supposedly fellow airline crews, almost excited at the thought of Spirit shutting down.. Obviously if you wake up in the morning, working for another airline, and feel the need to log into a forum and go to a Spirit thread so you can have a laugh at celebrating this place closing... You are most definitely saying something about who you are, deep down in your soul.. those who've done clearly need professional help.. there are scumbags on this earth, sure, but they're generally scavenging for their own benefit, but for you to have a need to kick others in the teeth so you feel better about your pathetic existence?? That places you beneath the scum of the earth..

But anyways, what benefit do you people think you'll see to your careers if Spirit should liquidate? Does that have an upward or downward pressure on your future wages? Downward, obviously... And what about your airlines ability to access future credit? And service debt? If liquidity seizes after Spirit liquidates, how does that help your career? If Spirit liquidated, say, a month ago, does anyone here think JB gets that $500mil line of credit they just got? So what happens to every JB pilot right now if Spirit had liquidated? Credit seizes, bankruptcy, furloughs, pay concessions.. yep.. all on the table if YOUR airline loses access to credit because Spirit liquidated.. so what the hell are some of you guys so happy about? That your airline might get a few extra ticket sales? I guarantee you the cost your career will pay, should a downward spiral in the industry start with liquidation of Spirit, I guarantee some of you (who don't even work for Spirit) will absolutely pay way more to your career than you gain when your airline sells a few extra tickets..

But alas, some of you really need to study 2008, learn from the children of 08.. downward spirals feed themselves, and much like how the collapse of Lehman Bothers about destroyed the entire banking system (even banks nowhere near related to them), the collapse of an airline far removed from your career can still have immense, adverse results, on your career progression..

So think long and hard about who you are as a person before you find happiness in the thought of Spirit collapsing.. that comment is to every Congressman about to vote on Spirit, as well as every fellow flight crew member who doesn't work for Spirit.. celebrating the demise of a fellow airline will come with a price you might pay, you just don't know what that price will be yet...

Political timing and optics on short final to an election. Kantor/Kahn wanted to block it real bad but they were ordered to stand down and let the clock run out.

agreed! The amount of those who come here to gloat about the possible failure of the airline is appalling!

Yeah, while I have some philosophical reservations about bailouts in general, cheering or celebrating is bad karma. In the grand scheme what will us legacy pilots gain from NK going away? An extra $10 on annual profit sharing for a couple years? Maybe an MCO overnight?

And NK was directly impacted by intentional .gov action not once but twice (although the business model is still in question).

I think the bailout and Spirit failing are two distinct items. Someone can hope that Spirit pulls through while also being against a government bailout. I think the biggest thing for the anti-bailout people is that the money ultimately does nothing. Spirit is either going to run out of money again and still liquidate, or the government will come in again with even more money. The "it's only 500 million" crowd's argument loses all it's teeth when you factor in that any financial pain being driven by increased fuel prices is going to continue for far longer than the $500 million will last. So it's not just a measly $500 million. It's that plus potentially a billion (billions?) more. And that's not even counting what other airlines might come hat in hand asking for.

I would also say that banks are a part of the economy much more interwoven into every other area. I don't see a contagion of airline failures, or other major ripple effects through the economy as a whole, if Spirit goes under, thus I don't see the government attempting to save Spirit as also an attempt to prop up the whole industry.

If I need to issue clarification on a few points, yes;

1) opposing the bailout doesn't inherently make on "pro-Spirit-liquidating".. I too, theologically, oppose government bailouts.. so do liberals, so do conservatives.. the point about that was, simply; If you were a congressman with a vote on this, your vote *should* come far more down to cost-benefit analysis than it does ideological beliefs.

2) a 363 whole sale of an airline comes free and unencumbered by debt (as I understand it) so the argument that the government buys Spirit, 363 wholesale, and still can't cover debt payments, I would only ask... What debt payments of a liquidation wholesale doesn't come with debts? (This is as I understand it, allow a real expert to explain that more)

And 3) I agree with you about contagion theory among banks is vastly different than airlines, sure, that's obviously what's being tested here today. But airlines are, in their own way, critical utilities blended with a strong peppering of financial institutions... But even that aside, what value airline gets any debt serviced, any lines of credit, or any big financial investors, if Spirit is allowed to liquidate.. I really believe JB got their loan because Spirit had an RSA and a reemergence plan. Liquidate Spirit instead, and I don't think JB gets that line of credit.. so.. you point out nuance differences, and I agree your points are right, but I still think you see contagion, easily, within the entire value carrier industry.

jetblue themselves declared spirit their biggest threat. spirit goes away = good for jetblue. better jetblue balance sheet = easier access to financing, so YES, its good for jetblue. and YES, they would have gotten their 500 million line of credit. and YES, it will benefit their careers. and YES, it will help increase pay.

how does getting rid of some of the lowest pay rates in the industry “drive our wages down”?