Exactly! The NC actually takes a stand in our favor and somehow their heads are on the chopping block?!? Give me a freaking break...clueless wonders around here. I'm not happy about the stand the company has taken; but the NC is doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. This is pure posturing by mgmt. The NC knows it and called them on their nonsense. Just relax, people.

This 'fire them at every turn' mentality is ridiculous. Some of you need to go back to kindergarten and learn how to deal with others. :rolleyes:

I think there is a wee too much emotion involved here. Let it ride a bit longer before getting to excited. It's only been 2 months


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War Eagle?[/QUOTE]

Oh hells no! Gamecocks!

if you owned spirit, why would you be in a hurry to pay us more? and please don't say 'to secure financing'

I was 1 for two. I gat it tha furst taim

Or 'toose' if you'res super excited.

Lol...and who are the right people? Let's hear some names that would leave management in a state of 'shock & awe'....because this negotiating team is obviously inept by saying they won't settle for a substandard contract.

Wow, something this IP said I agree with. As long as guys are lining up out the door to make 38$ an hour. As long as guys keep helping the company out for MUP, and as long as we waive our contract rules during irops....as long as our attrition remains less than 1%. There's no reason they would give us a TA!

Ok, yea, lets just keep making the same mistake over and over again. Sorry, Matyas has just failed too many times. I would have fired his ass for that iPad/DL LOA. Whose team is he on? The pilots or the company's?

Did everyone miss the foreshadowing in the previous neg update? Things are great... sooner than later... we are really close... btw, this could change at any time. The 'this could change' obviously was the message, the rest was fluff.

Welcome to all of those finally realizing we are looking at C2020.

I still think C2008 is a complete train wreck, and the DL loa proved this NC learned nothing from their '08 loss. I don't get why people think they will miraculously be cured of their rectal-cranial inversion.

I'm glad you see it Ramrod. The NC has their team posting on here trying to keep our head in the sand. C2020 sounds about right.

I was one o' the guys with optimism flowing out of his butt. Not a stooge by the NC, don't even know em, but I figured they might know a little bit of what theyre doing. Now I'm not so sure. The sunshine and rainbows, unicorns and cute puppies I thought about this contract are dead. Dead puppies, remember that song? Anywho, the training loa, the stepping all over the contract during the irop (with nothing more than a brief thanks and promises of making good) and now the substantial differences between sides makes me think you guys were right all along. It's not even about the pay and retirement it sounds like the issues are with scope, merger protection and health care. That tells me everything about where this management team is looking to take us.

After this news I wonder how many that are/were on the fence will start up their airline apps account again?

Jesus, a "disagreement" = end of the world, good thing the majority wasn't here when Ben said one week of cash left, when negotiations REALLY weren't going anywhere, and a strike to cherry the turd cake.

Relax, give it time.

MM has been given SEVEN years Sailor. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! This one is on Mat yu s . Or on you if you insist on being fooled.

Here's what will happen. It will drag out for a year or two, then the merger will be announced and we will start all over, while being whipsawed with the Fronteir group, lol. Can't wait!

I think it's more the fact that we keep hearing we're close, that we had the "goodwill" from the company due to the irop, that Delta received a TA early and SWA, FedEx and others are getting TAs that we're anxious. We were told that starting early was a good thing, that certain groundwork would be laid by starting early, prior to the amendable date. We just haven't seen the results of it yet. The latest email from the nc seemed to have an ominous tone and same with the latest MEC chairman's update. That and all the unity building meetings have me a little worried. I'm not ready to say I'm updating my delta app, but I'm quietly updating my delta app. Think I'll throw one in at United while I'm at it, just to see if those big fish are biting. I'm sure others are doing the same thing.

^ good points and Good luck, with all the "Flows" it's pretty hard to get a call from Delta & AA.

Hopefully they schedule another date soon for negotiations

I swear I've seen this movie before.

And in the mean time make sure to continue picking up open time, taxiing at 30kts, and waiting til you get to a mx base to write stuff up. We gotta keep these margins.

Ok, pointless to keep dragging az about this.
All I'm saying, whoever is in the NC, they stand up to CO in important issues, I'm ok with it, I can wait for more negotiations.

Tin-foil hats in high gear I see! Rainbows, you remind me of my kids with your need for instant gratification. Management starts to pull the same sh*t as last time (no-showing) and some how that's the nc's fault?! They stand up to management (doing there jobs) and now you are "now seeing what the handful of morons around here are talking about"?! GMAFB! And what does Matyas have to do with the training LOA. WE the pilot group voted it in! If you want something to worry about, imagine what the company thinks of our strength as a group when they read this board!

Let's not forget that the negotiators on the other side of the table are seasoned professionals. Negotiating is a game of wits and they are much better at it than [we] are. What is happening now is just a tactic. It perplexes me that so many of us say we won't vote for a contract that is not at least equal to our peers, but when the NC refuses to put to vote a contract that does not meet our requirements, many of us think they are not doing their job, or are somehow weak. Which is it guys? Do we just want a quick vote on a contract that does not meet all of our goals or do we want to be patient and get the contract we believe we deserve? I wish we could have it both ways but it seems obvious that is not going to happen.

No Tin-foil hats here. Little by little the new guys here are catching on. We werent here in 2010 to see that clown show so its been a slow learning curve.

Matyas had everything to do with the Training LOA. They tied the DL LOA together with the iPad deal even though one had nothing to do with the other. Some people actually thought a 'yes' vote meant they would be getting iPads.

It was a test to see if the new guys would eat out of Matyas' hands. They were fooled but now are catching on.

Time to get those clowns out of there. They are not skillful or honest.

You're an NC apologist poppa chubby we get it, they can do no wrong. I was talking about the way mgmt is handling the negotiations. And let me ask you, who negotiated that loa? I think I hear the NC calling you still got your knee pads on?

I'm not going anywhere, delta and AA wouldn't hire me. BUT, I'd be real surprised if we don't start seeing some guys head for the door shortly.

Notice how fast Pappachubby disassociates Matyas from the DL LOA. WE did it to our selves. Well folks I think it is about time WE put a stop to this self serving NC.

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You forgot to add.. Accepting that earlier reserve assignment for MUP, nothing more.. Until we quit bailing them out, there's no reason for a contract..

This way, I'll never be wrong.

Negotiations only went sideways after Ackerman demanded to be addressed as Captain during happy hour at the Bimini Boatyard and then his card got declined to cover the tab for Bendo and Baldanza. He asked for relief on the bill but got shot down...

Ackerman those of us who elected you in 77 haven't forgotten the promises and snake oil you sold us. I can hear "boulevard of broken dreams" playing in the background. Don't forget all of us when you get hired into management.

Please publish another podcast congratulating a system chief pilot for his work. A person who has more time in management than you do on property

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Do you get a rise beating your chest like that?! I would think you'd be sick of it by now. You and your little band of misfits have tried before and how has that worked out?! Let's face it.....your group is a handful at best (thank God)! But if it makes you feel like master of the universe......knock yourself out!

I did Nazi zis one coming!

Just a small bit of levity...

To put it in pre 2009 terms: yes, we shot ourselves in the foot with the DL LOA, but MM handed us the loaded .357.

I predict that we'll begin hearing the same rhetoric in the near future. There's a pattern here and anyone willing to observe with clear eyes will be able to identify said pattern.

You started off on the right track, then went sideways with this comment, The lack of true unity building events/exercises/activities is the primary signpost to me that we were in trouble from the beginning. THAT lack is what has me worried.

Under the RLA, we have almost zero leverage in negotiations. We are legally bound to work according to our past amendable date CBA. We can't walk away, we can't wildcat strike, we can't pull of CHAOS. We just can't withhold our services.

Which leaves us where? How do we obtain leverage?

1. The free market can grant us an advantage. When the company is unable to fill seats due to their lack of competitiveness in the job market, then the company will have to improve conditions to attract candidates. That's not really "leverage" but it certainly works in our favor.

2. We threaten to strike. BTW, a strike is not "leverage", a strike is a failure of negotiations. The THREAT of the strike is the leverage, not the strike. (That statement comes directly from the ALPA SPSC National Chair in 2007, and from the ALPA National staff negotiation trainer of the same era)

So where am I going with this you ask. Here >>>>To present a credible threat to the company, the pilot group has to become accustomed to acting per MEC direction, to moving together when the MEC says move, to follow the leadership closely enough to scare the company into believing - to accepting - that the pilots can pull off a successful strike.

We win, when the company realizes that a strike will cost them more than paying us not to strike, and that realization causes them to pay up rather than face a strike. In short, we need the unity events to build that unity and to show the company our resolve to improve our contract.

PS, we need unity events, NOT roadshows of a non existent TA.