Unions, by definition, are socialists. Unity, brotherhood, all for one, one for all, yada yada yada.

Most union members are good, decent folks that want to do well for their families and their company. What gives unions a bad name is their LEADERS. It ALWAYS starts at the top. It also doesn't help that most union leaders have political views that are directly opposed to the vast majority of their members.

Its too bad that you can't find a NATIONAL (or even local) union leader out there that will speak up and say, "Mr. President, are you listening? Your policies are hurting working people." That will never happen and that's part of the problem...

During the Obama administration the Nk pilot group got a release from negotiations and got the coveted 30 day cooling off period. They went on strike and had all the power to get compensated equitably. Do you think for ONE SECOND if Bush was here or even worse McCain or Reagan were in office you would of gotten released? Absolutely NOT!!!!

Remember GWB would not allow any union go on strike during his term(s)? GWB signed the age 65 act which totally screwed the surplus/demand of professional airline pilots. He did it because it would help airlines keep their thumbs on the pilots groups. You see we would have more power if we were in demand.

Your stance on unions being socialist is totally false. Do senior pilots get paid more than junior pilots? Do senior pilots get better seniority for bidding and vactions? If they were socialists, 20 year pilots would get paid the same as first year pilots.

The fact is the current administration GAVE YOU the power to get a decent contract. You chose to cave in and vote yes because you were scared, so don't blame the government or a union....It is the fault of the 76 percent who voted yes.


You know what else is socialist? The declaration of independence-----"all men are created equal" yada, yada, yada.

Sorry my friend, but unions are not socialistic. Socialism is "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.". Socialism is an economic system.

Unions started out as associations of workers with like skills that banded together to nurture and protect their craft.

Liberals hijacked craft unions in an attempt to gain control of economics on the micro scale because they are not enough motivated to work and succeed in the real world.

Airline pilots accept unionism because we know all too well that managers like Cord will grind us into the ground (no pun intended) without something to protect us. Airline pilot unions (whether the liberal leaders know it or not) main function is pilot protection. We protect seniority which protects against favoritism. We protect safety, because the government and industry would rather pay a lawsuit after we die in an inflight fire, than they would pay upfront for safety. We protect individual pilots from unfair discipline. Our economic power is very limited, because we all exist in a corporatist system. Not capitalist, but corporatist.

Gotta hit the lobby in less than an hour, see you in the jetway.

Just got my 'Re-elect Prater" email.

I lost a lot of respect for him when he sent his wife to FLL for strike night, because he was 'too busy on Capitol Hill' (Friday night, prior to the first pilot strike in how long?).

After seeing the result, I wouldn't have shown up either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Prater was directly involved in our negotiations on strike night.

recalls?
 

The new contract (which is fully effective September 1st) allows for furloughees to have 30 days to provide a response to Spirit about a notice of recall.

The old contract (currently effective through August 31st) allows for only 10 days.

Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the company to have a recall notice go out before the end of the month so they could have more time to prepare for an October 4th class?

Am I missing something here in my logic? I was expecting a vacancy notice by today at least so phone calls could be made on Monday and Tuesday before the new contract goes into effect - or else the company would possibly have to wait much longer for all the yays and nays and secondary letters, etc etc.

Anyone with insider knowledge about this one?

The simple answer is that they don't plan on recallling.

is that simple answer true????????????????????????????

Yes. With all the efficiency added with he new reserve, 90 hour line build, and now TRANSITION, I wouldn't expect the phone to ring anytime soon. So grab a beer and enjoy the view from the sidelines. Thank 74% of your buddies!

I am hearing Nov is when classes will start 6 for Nov 1 and 6 for Nov 15th.

I also would have liked a Oct class but it looks like it's not going to happen.

Jedi Night

Hey Sailor,
Did you catch the IOT awards today?
There were more denials on there then a yes voter looking at their pay statements.

ANYWAY, one of the notable APPROVALS was ARM cashing in on f4455/1 to the tune of 7 hours 23 min.

This on the heals of picking up F4430/31 in AUG for 6:50.

Unfortunately, F^2 was out-hoe'd for f4564/20 (gonna miss that extra 7:18)

CHEERS!

Wow, ARM is picking up overtime.....thats' venomous considering the stance on o.t. by the mec.....oh well, since they're doing it I guess I'll do it....

I don't get that. I heard the company went back to the 'old' way of doing transitions because when they started doing it the 'new' way, they had so many trips in OT and realized we don't have enough pilots to cover (short-staffed) So how is this contract, if they follow it, is more efficient? Obviously we are lean on crews and the fact that they balked on the transition is an indication of that being the truth

Please, don't confuse these guys with facts.

Looking at a quicker upgrade and more "bucks per hour" than most, these are the same guys that quit to go to UAL or AA.

Clueless.

Are you saying the 89+ block HOUR lines in FLL for Sept (historically slowest month) were adding to open time?
Anyway, the MEC is sucking up the OT, why not jump in and grab a little extra scratch. Wonder if the ARM man maxed out his JA 'allowance' this year yet.

Do unto the company before they do unto you...
"Carpe Overtimus"

Not sure what the point was there, but I believe we had one of those clueless wonders that left and came back on the NC.

"No points for leaving early"

How many lines in FLL were built to 89+? and who is ARM man?!!?

You're kidding right?

ARM a.k.a. F^2 is your MEC sec/treas.
Still fuzzy? look up those pairings.

As far as how many fll lines had sched block above 89, I don't know off the top of my head, but I know at least the first page was... Kind of lost interest after that.

Okay, i just looked him up on ALPA website, don't know him. And i can't look up his parings on Flica because it only lets me see my base. What's up with his pairings?

Just pointing out to the "Anti- OT" cartel, that one of their own MEC members, and one of the head socialists here at NK was busted in a recent OT prostitution sting. Here are a few quotes from the cartel:

Sniper on 7/4/10
The poster in this thread most upset by the lack of 150% OT pay admits he picks up overtime without abandon while Spirit pilots are still furloughed.

Never underestimate the power of greed.
***************
Sailor on 7/30/10
And as for how many will suck out to OT, my guess 15-20 % of our pilots...
***************
Merlyn on 7/30/10
I will never fly OT for 100%. If we hang tough 150 will come back as it did before. All depends on how many OT crack addicts can calm their addiction long enough to force the company to bring it back.
***************
Sailor on 7/31/10
Sky!, i never did, actually i've picked up a trip here and there, i am not a hypocrite, but am more of a SWAP and DROP type of guy and guy that picked my trips made my life easier. What i cant is gluttony, and we have some fatties here that nothing is ever enough, taking everything with tunnel vision, "me, me, me".
****************
Sailor on 8/6/10:
People picking up OT at 150% and dealing behind the scenes for 200% pay would DEFINITELY keep pilots on the streets. FACT!. 85-90 hrs lines will not.

Ramrod not sure why you included my comments in this post. I was just stating my opinion that a boycott on 100% would result in the OT rate going up as it did before. I don't give a rats ass if you all fly OT. I rarely do because I'm lazy. What you do is your own business.

Sorry, I guess referring to them as 'crack addicts' threw me off.

So were you one of the transition casualties this month too?

Huhh, what? We still talking about contract. My transition it's actually good, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I was enjoying my 5 days off, that I wouldn't have if it wasn't for the yes voters, thank you all yes voters.

I'm staring to think that you ram are a YES in the closet, you just like to talk trash to create instability. But you can come anytime, you are amongst friends.

Cheers and see ya on the bridge!! ;)

In a nutshell, Yes. I have a grievance going.

Sailor, you are misguided and arrogant. You are selfish. Oh good for you, you have a good transition. Dozens of guys got a royal screw job and you still put your coating of sugar on it. This contract is a joke, everyone who pushed it is a joke. You should be embarrassed for your spin you put on it. Are you happy making 20 percent less than a jeblue pilot with the same seniority? I bet you are, because you have such a terrific quality of life. It's a joke, nk quality of life in no better than jblu....period....end of story....stop embarrasing yourself.

you and the other yes voters cost me a lot of money. thank you, i wish i was independently wealthy....The Mec failed...the Neg committee failed. period....

You know why so many got their transitions screwed with, because of you yes voters. That's right, the yes voters showed the company how weak the pilot group is. Now your friends are getting snowed but you don't care about anybody but yourself. You must be part of this pathetic union.

If you reply to this then you agree with me....


cheers and wink wink to you...

Did you go to the Atl job fair, maybe you can find your wealth there?

JN

Yeh, it was a blast. Did you goto that party at the Marriot???

Wrong.

You may be frustrated because of the company's latest disregard of the CBA at our expense, but this statement is totally false.

That is your opinion, and your entitled; but you're not qualified to make a blanket statement like that.
Different people want different things, personally I'd take the JB pay and work rules. I get 13 days off per month, doesn't matter to me how many days off are strung together. Those that commute enjoy the 4 days off, and are willing to be paid less for it. That's great, but you can't tell me my qol is better than a JB'er.

He's not upset about the company disregard for the contract since he did not vote for it so he's happy they are back to their old game... That way he can say I told you so...

He's still upset he did not get stock options.

JN

Wait until they close acy and you lose your little flying club, then you'll see it's no better than b6. See you in fll soon.....

As far as options, you will be upset about that soon also. Live and learn my young friends....

You are welcome. I am glad I make less money so the people who choose not to live in base can have their precious 4 days off in a row. Too bad the 4 days doesn't cost the company anything...

First, the "flying club" in ACY, as you refer to it, is "open to all members"...meaning, bid up there if you think its so great.

Second, I have been displaced to every base NK could dream up in the last three years, so you could take your condescending attitude and shove it. Aaaaaand, I have first hand knowledge of the QOL at JB. You can choose to ignore the facts, but no matter the base, we have it much better.

Third, I dont give a rats *** if they do close ACY.

Fourth, the HUGE majority of pilots here spoke loudly in favor of keeping the four days off. This is a union shop, and if you dont like it, then I suggest you go look for a job at JB, VA, or ALGT. You seem to think its so great over there anyway. Just dont let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya on the way out.

.... you forgot to mention: Over at JetBlue he'll be able to negotiate his very "own contract" with the company, that way he won't have to worry about what "other" people are making. Semper Me, It's all about you! :rolleyes:

May I also suggest: China, I think the "Law-Man" is enjoying it over there???

I don't blame ALPA or NK's union but these guys for our low pay:

Mohamed Atta (Egyptian)
Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian)
Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian
Marwan al-Shehhi (from the United Arab Emirates)
Fayez Banihammad (from the United Arab Emirates)
Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian
Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian)
Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian)
Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian)
Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese)
Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian)
Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian

I'm not any ACY flying club I am a FLL flying club pilot.

Good luck at jet blue, its going to be awhile before your capt. I bet our furloughed pilots will be capt. here before any new hires at JB do.

I'm sure a few Junior pilots will be happy to move up a number when u leave.

JN

I doubt he will get an invite to B6.

Ah yes, the clasic "don't like it? then leave" response; very nice.
Just one point of interest, don't forget that there are only a handful of pilots that voted yes because they liked this POS. Majority of yes voters were either:

1. AFRAID to send the same clowns back in for FEAR they might screw things up worse (I'll be waiting for the 'are you going to join the NC next time response)

2. Afraid of the MEC/LUBY induced uncertainty over the 'gray area' of voting no (they chose not to add a contingency in the back to work agreement spelling out WHAT IF the TA is rejected. They WANTED uncertainty) BTW my 3K just about covered the taxes and the 12 hours I lost during the strike - unbelievable! we paid for our own strike!

3. Just wanted it over with.

4. Didn't bother to read the fine print (float going away/red-green give away, etc)

SO, 74% of the people you are flying with are either ignorant or weak... just my opinion.

You may not like the response, but the reason why you get it so much is because it is valid. If it is so terrible here you are, in fact, free to leave and improve your situation elsewhere. If you choose to stay, great...but please stop the whining.

Yes, you will love flying reserve in FLL.....How do you like those junior capt rates? pretty cool, huh!!! Way better than the regional world!!!! wait til you see how they interpet the RAP.:eek:..see you soon....I don't take suggestions from you because you are misguided....sorry....plus the majority of pilots voted yes because they were misguided by the MEC...

wow, still blaming the muslums 10 years later....You gotta let it go....weak pilots like the yes voters are responsible for the low pay and compensation. Why should I goto China? I helped build this place while you were teaching lazy 8's. You'll learn someday...

I don't make bets with people under legal gambling age...sorry....How do you know how long it will be before I upgrade at Jblu? Do you have inside information, or is it just speculation???