Don't forget the 2 more we get this year.

One in Nov and another in Dec.

Plus 3 more the begining of next year, Jan, Feb and Mar.

Jedi Night.

That video is quite offensive. It's pathetic to stoop that low.

That video is quite AWESOME.....

Sad but true.

What parts are offensive? What is not true?

I gave up on here, because the installed brain trust will never get it, but here are a couple points:

1. JH told our recurrent class no more aircraft this year.
2. Last November NK put out a PR announcing service to SPP in JUNE 2010. I must have missed the correction, but I dont think it started yet. In other words, how long have you been here?
3. Continue to believe the clowns that brought you "This place will NEVER IPO". They dont know any more than the rest of us Line Swine.
4. Who was that intrepid aviator at 1:23?

I didnt say anything about any more aircraft this year. I was simply pointing out to the new guy that doesnt seem to know any better that we are in fact growing the size of the fleet again starting in January.

Food for thought: Some will never be happy and misery loves company. For the rest of us, press on with what we have....

BTW: Paired Venting might work for at least 26% of NK's pilot group, sec. 14 ;-)

[QUOTE=shiftwork;895764]For the rest of us, press on with what we have....QUOTE]

Totally Agree!, is a waste of time to think what we could have done.
Look forward, welcome growth and fight again in 5 yeas.

Today's meeting with the pilots, COO stated:

Aircraft delivery-
1 in Jan
2 in Feb
1 in Nov
1 in Dec
7 in 2012
7 in 2013
10 in 2014

Possible Central American destination 01/11.

OK then!, some movement in the future, not bad!

I just wonder what attrition looks like for the next 5 yrs?

I hear Frank eeked out a victory in the 109 election. Congrats Frank, bye bye Doug.

Spirit website says new service ACY-LAS and increased frequencies FLL-TPA. No details on there yet as far as start dates. I just saw the FLL-TPA announcement on CBS4 news in South FL.

Cool, see you at breakfast. BTW, did the website have quotes around new? ie "New" service ACY - LAS? It was new last time we did that flight.

I have a friend furloughed from spirit...recall went mandatory...no option for leave of absence. And the spirit contract states no full retraining unless you've been out 36 months...so the furloughs would get a measly three or four sims then check ride....after they've been out 2 years. Totally not cool in my book...actually bush-league!!! They have no regard for their furloughed pilots and their families/situations. There are furloughed guys flying in the middle east that can't break their contracts, and now they will lose their seniority number because there are no leave of absences being granted. I find it funny how spirit all of a sudden needs All their furloughs back due to extreme growth. I'll believe it when I see it. The way spirit management runs the airline all it will take is a stiff breeze in FLL to furlough again..and trust me...Baldanza does not give two craps about any pilot at spirit. And it would have been nice to see spirits mec fight for the leave of absence for their furloughed guys. It's also funny that with the new contract first year pay actually DECREASED! Are you serious? I am furloughed from united...and although united has their shortcomings..the pilot group would NEVER let this occur.

Hope you're wearing asbestos underware! Prepare to be flamed... The CBA bullys will be here soon! Run!!

Ha ha, I hear ya. I'm speaking on my friends behalf, who has personally spoken with many of the furloughed pilots. 99% of them feel the same way, abandoned by their union. The union sent an email out to the furloughs about mandatory recall and said something to the effect of "we need 12 BODIES in class for December first.". I couldn't believe the UNION referenced BODIES in class...seriously? That is bush league again. I feel for the furloughed guys and gals at spirit. Many of them reference the airline as the "ultra low cost, ultra low class airline.". Anybody currently at spirit knows baldanza could actually care less about the pilots. If I were theta I'd be seriously afraid of another furlough...and I can tell you firsthand they suck! The union can come on here all they want and flame me but I don't care. They need to answer to their pilot group, who in fact includes the furloughs. But since soo many of them are being forced to resign since the union didn't fight for leave of absences, they really don't even count, right? Such messed up thinking. How freaking hard is it to fight for a leave of absence policy for YOUR UNION BROTHERS and SISTERS, but then again...they are only BODIES, right?

Seriously! This isn't 2000 bud. Take a look at your own contract and A320 payrates before you start throwing stones.

Where did you get pay rates and contract out of my post? I was talking about your union fighting for your furloughs...not everything is about money bro. And by the way...your last contract baldanza ****ed all over and violated 10 ways to Tuesday...what makes you think he won't do that again? What's stopping him again from telling you to grieve it and then wait for years to reach a verdict? Quality of life is much more important, which I believe he violated last contract with your minimum days off between trips...right????

Well, that didn't take long did it?
Scotty is actually a big QOL proponent. B^3 violating the contract? Our biggest win in this CBA is the "expedited arbitration". Our transition language (with pictures and examples) was thrown out the window before the ink was dry. Our super expedited arbitration is going into month 4.

That's great that he is...wonder why he got pay and contract out of my post. Like I said earlier, I was bringing this point up for the furloughed pilots at spirit. My friend and her furloughed brethren cannot get an answer from their mec detailing to them how they fought for leave of absences, yet were denied. They are looking for answers and have not been provided with them. And yes she has contacted the spirit mec, with no response as of yet. Well, actually she did get a scathing response from this Doug guy, who I guess was voted out recently. All they want are answers to how the union fought for them.

My feelings are this. Your "friend" has a right to be upset about the way the recalls went down. But to expect this airline to care about its employees and frankly seem upset that they don't give a crap surprised me. Where have they been for the past 2.5 years while all the mistreatment went down over and over again? Did they not stay in the loop on what was going on in the company? Not only does this company not care about its employees, it does it on purpose. This is common knowledge. To expect anything more than being treated like garbage is asinine. The company "may grant" personal leaves of absence. Nowhere does it say they have to. I have worked for good companies who have done close to the same thing. Sad but it is common to the airline business.

This pilot group will allow it to occur. Why? Because they are fractured. Some are happy, some ashamed, some extremely angry(ram ;)). The unions response to this situation is questionable. Were they aware it was an issue? Were the correct MEC members and reps contacted?

Please do not say that I am part of the problem. I support your "friend" in her quest. I am a realist and have completely accepted what NK is and what they do. Will I try to affect change? Maybe one I get back, but until I reach that point there is nothing I can do.

Good luck.

To boredwlife....I appreciate your honesty. I wasn't implying that you are a part of the problem. What you wrote echoes the way many feel to a T. It is a shame not to expect more from the union. Like I said earlier, I don't fly for spirit, I just got angry hearing the situation. Best of luck to you in your career. Thanks again for your honest perspective, it's refreshing to see someone come out and put how they really feel out here, instead of just laying low with the rank and file.

I guess I'm what Ramrod calls a CBA bully. Not sure I fit the description of bully, but whatever. I'll do my best to just reference what you said and how it actually pertains to our contract.

Our contract does not regulate what type of training a recall furloughee receives; that would be the FARs and the FOTM (flt ops training manual). What both say is, after 24 months, a returning pilot is to receive a "full" training cycle (indoc, etc.). So your 36 months reference holds no water.

As for those that may return inside of 24 months: the training dept. will provide a shortened syllabus training program. It has in the past included about 4 sessions in the simulator, with several PT sessions in a mock-up beforehand. This has proven sufficient for other returning furloughs, as I am unaware of any washouts of any returning pilot within the last year.

The big question concerning training is this: Why on earth would Spirit management want to set someone up to fail? Wouldn't it cost more to bring in a replacement for that person? Think about it...the airline has already had that person on property before, so the guesswork (both personality and ability) has been covered already.

Not sure what you receive at United, but we are all in possession of a pretty decent powerpoint A/V program that does a nice job with the Airbus' systems. We ALL have it- even those currently out on furlough. IMHO, if you watch that through 2 or 3 times, you've got a good handle on what our IPs expect out of your systems knowledge. As for the sim: Is your Airbus really that hard to fly at United? Really?

According to our (newly anointed) VP of Flt Ops, the desperate need for pilots is not currently driven by "extreme growth", it is due to his belief in a realistic staffing model.

Our "recently escorted out of the building" Senior Crew Planning Director used a former NWA VP's view at pilot staffing- that is, razor thin staffing, throw it in open time and let the pilots pick it up. Problem is, no one is picking it up. So this "desperate need" of pilots is actually being driven by an attempt by management to actually staff the airline somewhat properly.

Which leads us to the mandatory recall (and decision to deny further LOAs). Actually, the intent on the recall is to issue 4 different vacancy bids from Jan-Apr and allow the returning furloughs to pick a date of return within that time frame. Our contract is very clear: with an acceptable reason, an LOA will be granted for 6 months, and may be extended beyond 6 months with the consent of the VP Flt Ops. If the mandatory went out at the end of October...what's 6 months beyond that date?

Here's where captscott was referencing pay rate. I agree, we should pay a fair first-year rate like United. Oh, wait...that's $33/hour...or $5.50/hour less than Spirit's new first-year rate. Nevermind. If I were a first-year guy, I'd rather make the latter there.

And if you guys pay $33 and Continental pays $31, I wonder where the NK side of the table got their ammo for decreasing the first-year rate by a buck-and-a-half?

That's the stone you threw.

Gator,

Thanks for the posts. But there a few things wrong. The company will not grant a LOA with a good reason, the contract states that they "may", not "will". All furloughed pilots received a letter stating that there would be absolutely no LOA's.

Also as for the training. I believe it to be a little short on what we need. We do not get the full training cycle. We get what is called curriculum B.

"
Dequalified 12 but less than 36 months ‐ must complete requalification curriculum B to requalify."

This is an extremely short ground school and 3 sims followed by a PC. This comes straight out of the FOM.

I'll ask a question with regards to unions and what they do/provide: Do some of you think they are like Santa Claus?

gatorbird, again you missed the entire point of my post. I can appreciate you clarifying some things I stated...thats cool. In no way was I comparing Spirit's first year pay to United's...did I ever compare the two? It's obvious Spirit pays more than United first year....anybody can read that off the website...I was referencing how in your new CBA the first year FO pay actually decreased!!!! How can you go on strike and then decrease first year pay? To me that seems like nobody cares about the new guys on property. That's my opinion and is not really up for argument. If you dont agree then thats fine...but thats the way it looks to me. And for training cycles etc, frankly I could care less...I just think it's bush league that the airline did not offer leave of absences to furloughed pilots who worked hard to get there, and now have to resign their seniority number because of the "staffing model" as you put it. My friend has a phenomenal job now and makes way more than she ever could at spirit, not to mention the job security, yet she suffers from the same disease we all do....the love of flying. That's why these airlines can bully us all around...we would be willing to fly for peanuts...that's why I accepted low first year pay at United...as you graciosuly pointed out in your post. And, in my opinion again, if a bunch of the furloughs dont come back at 61 bucks an hour, or whatever the pay is, its actually cheaper in the long run to get new hires at the new, lower, first year pay rate of 38 bucks an hour. Again, thats just my opinion and I dont care who agrees or disagrees.

boredwlife, actually they did grant one loa, and thats a fact, to a female furloughed pilot. That totally blows the "no leave of absences will be granted" as stated on that letter out of the water.

gatorbird, are you on the mec by chance? If you are, can you post up how the mec fought to get leave of absences granted for your pilots? I'm just curious. I dont want to get into a back and forth here, ranting and raving against each other, comparing airlines, just curious. And to answer your question, the Airbus is really easy to fly, especially with United's excetional training, it was even easier.

No, more like the Grinch. They have and are going to great lengths to reach into my wallet/ screw up my schedule.

because of this cute little statement...


I have talked with MANY of the returning furloughs and they have all said the training was fine. As a matter of fact, I WAS ONE! These guys are hitting the checkride well prepared.

Thats a decision they made when they signed a CONTRACT to fly in the middle east. Your friend should have considered this if he/she had intentions to come back to Spirit.

The way they run an airline...hmmm, ok. We have made a profit every year during the worst recession since the great depression. So if it takes a "stiff breeze" in FLL to furlough at Spirit, what does it take in ORD to furlough at UAL...

once again, take a look at your own operation before you throw stones. I could type for hours about how mgmt runs things at United. Your CEO has managed to single handedly destroy one of the greatest airlines in the world, so please save me your criticisms of ours.

Oooohhh..I touched a nerve, now we're getting angry. I see this is a pointless discussion anyways. How bout this...you stay happy at Spirit, since it's the greatest airline out there, and you'll probably never apply anywhere else anyways, and it's a way better airline than United, as you've so eloquently put it, and I'll just look forward to my recall at that horrible place called United.

If I understand that though she is 6-7 months pregnant...

Does that make it a MLOA or a PLOA?

no, that would be the company. If I'm not mistaken, the "union" which you are member of, negociated for more pay and QOL. It wasn't what some of YOU wanted but enough of the union membership agreed upon.

FWIW: I have more days off, 15 instead of 13 and I earn more!!! But then again, with guys on the street, I wasn't one to do the OT stuff anyway......

United,
I have an honest queston (no flame). Your recall rights are 10 yerars. Can you pick the date you want to return in those 10 years? I have read this persons diatribe and they seem to think that you can just stay out for however long and go back not when the company calls, but when you want. In other words, can all of the recalls be back except one person, and then United starts hiring without doing a mandatory recall? If so what happens to the furloughed person? Do they lose seniority as new employees are hired above them? How does an LOA differ from this? I'm interested to find out the differences in your contract.

I stand corrected on the 36 months req. You are correct about the curriculum B. However, when reviewing curriculum B, it still provides 87 total training hours- including 67 total aircraft-specific training. That's still quite a bit.

But don't focus on the initial vs. requal training thing. What is important is that the airline's training department DOES NOT want anyone to wash. First, there are few egos over there; the environment is very relaxed and non-pressured. Out of 3 airlines, my experience through this schoolhouse was by far the most at-ease. And like I said before- why would the company NOT want to encourage the returning furloughs to succeed, even if it meant authorizing an additional training session or two? Talk about cost benefits...

My point about the LOAs: the company is already granting the returning furloughs one 6-month LOA by giving them the option of when to return, given that the recalls were called in October and they have until as late as April to accept a class date.

Then why are you posting on a pubic forum?

Nope, not on the MEC. But if I was, I certainly wouldn't disclose that on a public forum.

Exactly how do you fight the company when they followed the CBA on this subject (LOAs)? The MEC has other fights to fight, namely in those areas where the company is NOT following the CBA.

And for the record, I'm not ranting and raving- just trying to answer the questions YOU asked. Maybe you should be worrying about what's going on on your side of the fence- like how United's MEC has sold scope to the point that it's rendered you unemployed. I know it has Continental's MEC's attention.