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Old 09-17-2023, 06:02 AM
  #1001  
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Yes, it's better than a regional.
Yes, it's infuriating that the progress and growth is so much slower and more painful than it needs to be.
And, yes, you should win a prize for making the 1,000th post in the thread.
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Old 09-17-2023, 01:11 PM
  #1002  
Reserve Without End
 
Joined APC: Feb 2022
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Originally Posted by nibake View Post
Yes, it's better than a regional.
Yes, it's infuriating that the progress and growth is so much slower and more painful than it needs to be.
And, yes, you should win a prize for making the 1,000th post in the thread.

I now have something to talk about at cruise the next time Iím called off reserve for a CQ LOE.
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Old 09-19-2023, 07:02 PM
  #1003  
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I heard on the call today they want to give in to concessions, such as having us pay more for medical insurance, in order to get CATs, which is something I thought was already negotiated for. Can someone explain why the local guys have to pay for commuters to work here the 6 months that they stay?
And what is with these 4 day trips??? many with penalty laps at the beginning and/or end. This doesn't sound very commuter accessible or friendly to me.
I know a few guys are happy to see 4 day trip lengths, and it does sound like they will be around for a while, but i feel that is the worst for everyone. most guys want 1 day trips, a few that drive a little further want 2 or 3 days and the rest commute and want 5 or 6 or 12 day trips.
Did I miss a survey?? cuz if i'm going to be stuck working a bunch of 4 days, I may as well work somewhere else that pays more for my time away from home.
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Old 09-20-2023, 04:52 AM
  #1004  
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Wasn't on the call, but I totally agree about the 4 day trips. They are something of a compromise where no one wins. I have a shorter drive would would prefer a mix of 1/2/3 day work where possible. Granted, it's also not winning when you are local and all you can hold is six day trips, so in that sense it's better. In the end, the solution is letting pilots pick what is best, not pigeon-holing people into stuff that doesn't give them the QOL they need. Idk if/when we'll ever get to that point. Until we do, I think the upgrade problem will persist.
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Old 09-20-2023, 05:26 AM
  #1005  
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Originally Posted by maverickchill View Post
Most guys want to work one day trips
That’s simply not true. “Some” yeah. Not most.


Originally Posted by maverickchill View Post
if i'm going to be stuck working a bunch of 4 days, I may as well work somewhere else that pays more for my time away from home.
This should be everyone’s goal, everyday, in this industry. Learning has occurred.

As long as local (within two hours) pilots are flying 5/6 day trips, they are on borrowed time.
And gone is the belief this company grows via commuters. It now survives its current growth by getting FOs to upgrade. Currently zero bidding.

I have zero complaints with October scheduling. Yeah, sunny starts early and ends late. I’ve come to accept that.
Thank you to those figuring this thing out.
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Old 09-20-2023, 06:00 AM
  #1006  
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Originally Posted by R0GER BALL View Post
Thatís simply not true. ďSomeĒ yeah. Not most.


This should be everyoneís goal, everyday, in this industry. Learning has occurred.

As long as local (within two hours) pilots are flying 5/6 day trips, they are on borrowed time.
And gone is the belief this company grows via commuters. It now survives its current growth by getting FOs to upgrade. Currently zero bidding.

I have zero complaints with October scheduling. Yeah, sunny starts early and ends late. Iíve come to accept that.
Thank you to those figuring this thing out.

How about local pilots bidding their 6th month of reserve stuck on min guarantee? Thatís not a very attractive place to be in terms of recruitment.

Iím voting with my feet next month. But in the interim, Iím curious to see what happens around here.
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Old 09-20-2023, 06:46 AM
  #1007  
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Originally Posted by AlikesitR View Post
How about local pilots bidding their 6th month of reserve stuck on min guarantee? Thatís not a very attractive place to be in terms of recruitment.

Iím voting with my feet next month. But in the interim, Iím curious to see what happens around here.
6 months of reserveÖ.how do you cope (insert eye roll)?
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Old 09-20-2023, 07:31 AM
  #1008  
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Originally Posted by NVR L8 View Post
6 months of reserveÖ.how do you cope (insert eye roll)?
I really donít mind reserve. Thatís not a problem. I understand Reserve historically has been a lot longer with worse work rules. I get that. But Sun Country min guarantee pay for reserve First Officers is no longer competitive with the regionals. I was recruited on the premise of 2 months of reserve and lots of open time to offset the paycut. Itís been a 30-40k paycut relative to the regional I was at as a function of work rules not shared at all in the hiring process. How do you attract 121 guys to your airline on a 30-40k paycut and steep decrease in QOL?

The seniority outlook here is troubling so long as this company is not serious about growing. I didnít come here with the intent of leaving. But back of the envelope math shows senior FOs at terminal 1 can make close to as much as our captains with similar QOL. It shows in the attrition numbers. Sure I may be pulling the ripcord early, but Iím far from the only one.

In the interim, I am curious to see what happens around here. I like the people I fly with and want to see the place do well.

Last edited by AlikesitR; 09-20-2023 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 09-20-2023, 08:57 AM
  #1009  
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Originally Posted by maverickchill View Post
Can someone explain why the local guys have to pay for commuters to work here the 6 months that they stay?
Seriously. I'm getting tired of everything being done to appease a tiny sliver of our pilot group that doesn't stay long enough to help the company realize any significant growth. Talks of taking concessions from all of us for their sake is really frustrating, but its not even what burns me the most. There have been multiple discussions about positive space commutes and travel banks. So commuters will cost an extra 30k /year for the company? (my math is 6 flights per month @$400 per ride. Assuming a commuter works 3 trips per month and commutes both ends) How on this planet does a commuter that doesn't pick up open time, more likely to leave, and more likely to call out of trips or penalty laps offer 30k more in value to the company than a local guy that stays and likely picks up open flying here and there. Just doesn't make any damn sense.

*unpopular opinion trigger warning* They say commuting isn't a choice. I have mad A LOT of choices in my career specifically to avoid commuting. There are mainline carriers that I never applied to, there are cities that I moved to specifically to avoid commuting. Minneapolis is a great place to live. Sunny is a fine place to work. Nobody needs to commute.

/rant
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Old 09-20-2023, 12:10 PM
  #1010  
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Position: B-737
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Originally Posted by maverickchill View Post
I heard on the call today they want to give in to concessions, such as having us pay more for medical insurance, in order to get CATs, which is something I thought was already negotiated for. Can someone explain why the local guys have to pay for commuters to work here the 6 months that they stay?
And what is with these 4 day trips??? many with penalty laps at the beginning and/or end. This doesn't sound very commuter accessible or friendly to me.
I know a few guys are happy to see 4 day trip lengths, and it does sound like they will be around for a while, but i feel that is the worst for everyone. most guys want 1 day trips, a few that drive a little further want 2 or 3 days and the rest commute and want 5 or 6 or 12 day trips.
Did I miss a survey?? cuz if i'm going to be stuck working a bunch of 4 days, I may as well work somewhere else that pays more for my time away from home.
So you didnít listen to the call and you are trying to re quote something that may or may not have been saidÖ. Why would we give concessions when pilots have never been more in demand? Stop.
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