Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Technical
crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604 >

crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Notices
Technical Technical aspects of flying

crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Old 11-23-2018, 08:54 AM
  #1  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Position: Corporate
Posts: 4
Default crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Need any tips anyone can provide. Been flying Falcons most of my career and now flying a Challenger 604. Need any tips on Crosswind landings in this jet. Very different then a Falcon from the feel to the pitch attitude and use of controls.
Flypony is offline  
Old 11-23-2018, 12:37 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

PM Sent.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 11-26-2018, 02:07 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
sourdough44's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: Left
Posts: 636
Default

I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
sourdough44 is offline  
Old 11-26-2018, 02:32 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 802
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Well Falcon's are engineered to fly nice while Bombardier doesn't care.

You're probably trying not to overcontrol, but the 604 has stupid small ailerons with no spoiler assist, and the gear doesn't like side-load. Likely you need larger and more aggressive roll inputs. Wing down top rudder and don't try to hold it off in the flare because you can run out of aileron.
Proximity is offline  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:32 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,977
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Naw, you'll get more youtube views with "land in a 30° crab and let maintenance figure it out!".
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 11-27-2018, 05:39 AM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Careful with any plane having geometry limits. 8⁰ will start scraping tips on a C-5 and a Global if get the body angle a little above normal. I’ve done several investigations on scrapes. Surprisingly, many are no where near the demonstrated crosswind limits.

Decrab, really a combination of decrab with a few degrees of wing low, is the way to go.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 11-27-2018, 05:41 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

Originally Posted by Proximity View Post
Well Falcon's are engineered to fly nice while Bombardier doesn't care.

You're probably trying not to overcontrol, but the 604 has stupid small ailerons with no spoiler assist, and the gear doesn't like side-load. Likely you need larger and more aggressive roll inputs. Wing down top rudder and don't try to hold it off in the flare because you can run out of aileron.
It was actually Bill Lear and Canadair that didn’t care. It’s a 40-year old design.
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:11 AM
  #8  
Super Moderator
 
usmc-sgt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
Default

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
Careful with any plane having geometry limits. 8⁰ will start scraping tips on a C-5 and a Global if get the body angle a little above normal. I’ve done several investigations on scrapes. Surprisingly, many are no where near the demonstrated crosswind limits.

Decrab, really a combination of decrab with a few degrees of wing low, is the way to go.

GF
That’s how the 320 will do it in an auto land. It will wait for what seems like an eternity while it’s 10’ AGL in a big crab before correcting. It then kicks in a steady (but heavy) dose of rudder to swing it around in a hurry with slight wing down. It doesn’t land sideloaded or off centerline so I tend to copy it.
usmc-sgt is offline  
Old 11-27-2018, 12:13 PM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Adlerdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,987
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane?
I know it all kind of happens together, but I’ve always put in the rudder first. The proper amount of rudder aligns the a/c with the runway. You can’t know how much wing to put down in order to kill the drift until you have the correct amount of rudder in.
Adlerdriver is offline  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:25 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I know it all kind of happens together, but I’ve always put in the rudder first. The proper amount of rudder aligns the a/c with the runway. You can’t know how much wing to put down in order to kill the drift until you have the correct amount of rudder in.
Were it only flown that way! In investigating 12 wingtip scrapes, only two occurred when the winds were close to the demonstrated crosswind component. Several were with less than 10 knots cross component. Seems some just roll in bank mechanically and as long as the nose is straight—good to land. Not so much. And I’ve flown with a couple that fly that way.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MX727
Cargo
16
02-24-2009 09:30 PM
robbreid
Corporate
18
01-17-2009 02:13 AM
HSLD
Major
5
03-02-2008 12:42 PM
PurpleSmurf
Cargo
4
11-04-2007 07:16 AM
HSLD
Hangar Talk
5
11-17-2006 07:14 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices