Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Technical
crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604 >

crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Search

Notices
Technical Technical aspects of flying

crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-23-2018 | 08:54 AM
  #1  
Thread Starter
New Hire
 
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Corporate
Default crosswind landing techniques Challenger 604

Need any tips anyone can provide. Been flying Falcons most of my career and now flying a Challenger 604. Need any tips on Crosswind landings in this jet. Very different then a Falcon from the feel to the pitch attitude and use of controls.
Reply
Old 11-23-2018 | 12:37 PM
  #2  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

PM Sent.

GF
Reply
Old 11-26-2018 | 02:07 PM
  #3  
sourdough44's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 716
Likes: 8
From: Left
Default

I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Reply
Old 11-26-2018 | 02:32 PM
  #4  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 997
Likes: 68
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Well Falcon's are engineered to fly nice while Bombardier doesn't care.

You're probably trying not to overcontrol, but the 604 has stupid small ailerons with no spoiler assist, and the gear doesn't like side-load. Likely you need larger and more aggressive roll inputs. Wing down top rudder and don't try to hold it off in the flare because you can run out of aileron.
Reply
Old 11-26-2018 | 08:32 PM
  #5  
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,150
Likes: 51
From: Volleyball Player
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Naw, you'll get more youtube views with "land in a 30° crab and let maintenance figure it out!".
Reply
Old 11-27-2018 | 05:39 AM
  #6  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane? I suppose things can change over time.
Careful with any plane having geometry limits. 8⁰ will start scraping tips on a C-5 and a Global if get the body angle a little above normal. I’ve done several investigations on scrapes. Surprisingly, many are no where near the demonstrated crosswind limits.

Decrab, really a combination of decrab with a few degrees of wing low, is the way to go.

GF
Reply
Old 11-27-2018 | 05:41 AM
  #7  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

Originally Posted by Proximity
Well Falcon's are engineered to fly nice while Bombardier doesn't care.

You're probably trying not to overcontrol, but the 604 has stupid small ailerons with no spoiler assist, and the gear doesn't like side-load. Likely you need larger and more aggressive roll inputs. Wing down top rudder and don't try to hold it off in the flare because you can run out of aileron.
It was actually Bill Lear and Canadair that didn’t care. It’s a 40-year old design.
Reply
Old 11-27-2018 | 06:11 AM
  #8  
usmc-sgt's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,077
Likes: 40
Default

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Careful with any plane having geometry limits. 8⁰ will start scraping tips on a C-5 and a Global if get the body angle a little above normal. I’ve done several investigations on scrapes. Surprisingly, many are no where near the demonstrated crosswind limits.

Decrab, really a combination of decrab with a few degrees of wing low, is the way to go.

GF
That’s how the 320 will do it in an auto land. It will wait for what seems like an eternity while it’s 10’ AGL in a big crab before correcting. It then kicks in a steady (but heavy) dose of rudder to swing it around in a hurry with slight wing down. It doesn’t land sideloaded or off centerline so I tend to copy it.
Reply
Old 11-27-2018 | 12:13 PM
  #9  
Adlerdriver's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,064
Likes: 37
From: 767 Captain
Default

Originally Posted by sourdough44
I thought it was ‘wing down, top rudder’ for most any plane?
I know it all kind of happens together, but I’ve always put in the rudder first. The proper amount of rudder aligns the a/c with the runway. You can’t know how much wing to put down in order to kill the drift until you have the correct amount of rudder in.
Reply
Old 11-27-2018 | 04:25 PM
  #10  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
I know it all kind of happens together, but I’ve always put in the rudder first. The proper amount of rudder aligns the a/c with the runway. You can’t know how much wing to put down in order to kill the drift until you have the correct amount of rudder in.
Were it only flown that way! In investigating 12 wingtip scrapes, only two occurred when the winds were close to the demonstrated crosswind component. Several were with less than 10 knots cross component. Seems some just roll in bank mechanically and as long as the nose is straight—good to land. Not so much. And I’ve flown with a couple that fly that way.

GF
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MX727
Cargo
16
02-24-2009 09:30 PM
robbreid
Corporate
18
01-17-2009 02:13 AM
HSLD
Major
5
03-02-2008 12:42 PM
PurpleSmurf
Cargo
4
11-04-2007 07:16 AM
HSLD
Hangar Talk
5
11-17-2006 07:14 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices