Horizontal Stabilizer (Tail) Stall Warning
10-23-2009, 02:26 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by block30
KC10 DO YOU NEED TO WRITE IN ALL CAPS? THAT'S LIKE SHOUTING.
What am I saying that is so damn offensive that folks are taking this personally? When have I been uncivil?
-Break-
I also find this curious- beaten into my head is that sharper objects acrete ice faster. The research backs this up. But yet tail stalls really haven't been much of an issue, while the wing has been. This seems to contradict that the tail will be collecting ice at a higher rate. Why is this?
Also, Left Handed, thank you for your input.
What am I saying that is so damn offensive that folks are taking this personally? When have I been uncivil?
-Break-
I also find this curious- beaten into my head is that sharper objects acrete ice faster. The research backs this up. But yet tail stalls really haven't been much of an issue, while the wing has been. This seems to contradict that the tail will be collecting ice at a higher rate. Why is this?
Also, Left Handed, thank you for your input.
You bring up a reasonable question. Why (if the tail will build ice faster than the main wing), would the tail not stall first?
You are confusing ice build ups with stalls. The two are related, but in different ways.
The main wing and tail wing will stall differently because they are of different design and shape. Additionally, they do not carry the same weight, or force. ALL of the weight (oops I did it again) is transfered through the main wing. Only a portion of force is transferred, and downward I might add (to keep the nose up), on the tail.
Does this make sense?
10-23-2009, 03:22 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
Finally, the whole "You are shouting because you type in CAPS" is juvenile.
That said, I disagree with the wide array of font changes used so eagerly to emphasize points in forum posts. To me, and I mean no disrespect, nor am I just referring to this thread, that seems a juvenile, uneducated, construction of ones ideas.
On topic: Are the de/anti icing systems on the tail designed to be more effective than that on the wing because the engineers know it will pick up ice quicker?
As for a tail stall system, I don't recall any accident either that was due to this in the course I took on aircraft safety where we studied 20 or so different major accidents. It doesn't mean they don't exist, but the implementation of an entirely new system, adding both weight and cost, seems unnecessary. I would rather put that money and development time towards more pilot training as opposed to a tool that may be used 0.01% of the time or less.
10-23-2009, 05:26 PM
#23
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Shdw, many aircraft don't have de-icing or anti-icing systems for the tail.
As for an MD-88, whenever you need airfoil anti-ice, the system automatically reverts back to the tail for one cycle if you turn off the system. Essentially, the engineers designed it so that the tail was always the last item to be heated -- even if you turn the switched off (it continues the tail cycle even after the switch was placed to off).
Was this done because they knew that smaller surfaces would catch more ice? I don't know.
As for an MD-88, whenever you need airfoil anti-ice, the system automatically reverts back to the tail for one cycle if you turn off the system. Essentially, the engineers designed it so that the tail was always the last item to be heated -- even if you turn the switched off (it continues the tail cycle even after the switch was placed to off).
Was this done because they knew that smaller surfaces would catch more ice? I don't know.
10-23-2009, 06:21 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Shdw, many aircraft don't have de-icing or anti-icing systems for the tail.
As for an MD-88, whenever you need airfoil anti-ice, the system automatically reverts back to the tail for one cycle if you turn off the system. Essentially, the engineers designed it so that the tail was always the last item to be heated -- even if you turn the switched off (it continues the tail cycle even after the switch was placed to off).
Was this done because they knew that smaller surfaces would catch more ice? I don't know.
As for an MD-88, whenever you need airfoil anti-ice, the system automatically reverts back to the tail for one cycle if you turn off the system. Essentially, the engineers designed it so that the tail was always the last item to be heated -- even if you turn the switched off (it continues the tail cycle even after the switch was placed to off).
Was this done because they knew that smaller surfaces would catch more ice? I don't know.
10-23-2009, 06:31 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by shdw
That is really interesting, and confusing. lol Have any more details or other aircraft to compare to, now I am curious if they all follow this and if anyone knows why. Thanks fellas.
10-23-2009, 06:45 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by plasticpi
Well, the Saab boot system hits the tail, then the outboard wing segments, then the inboard, then the tail again. I also don't really know why the tail is hit twice and last, but it must be for a reason.
10-23-2009, 07:22 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by shdw
I am more interested in what the larger aircraft systems do, the 100+ passenger jets. Do they use a hotter bleed air system on the tail than the wing, are the systems identical or different. If they are different, how and why? That is weird that it would initiate twice though, I never got to fly the crusader at the college (missed it by 2 years) but I think it only fired each one once.
Last edited by plasticpi; 10-23-2009 at 07:48 PM.
10-23-2009, 08:00 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by plasticpi
I'm not sure what the number of seats has to do with ice prevention systems, but ok...
A bleed air system can be metered to distribute more air to one area than another, even heated systems can be set to produce more heat. Whether or not they are is what I am curious about. Boots on the other hand have no real method for adjustment, they expand, they contract. See what I mean?
10-23-2009, 08:18 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I'm sorry that you don't like my syntax. I promise NOT to use it again.
You bring up a reasonable question. Why (if the tail will build ice faster than the main wing), would the tail not stall first?
You are confusing ice build ups with stalls. The two are related, but in different ways.
The main wing and tail wing will stall differently because they are of different design and shape. Additionally, they do not carry the same weight, or force. ALL of the weight (oops I did it again) is transfered through the main wing. Only a portion of force is transferred, and downward I might add (to keep the nose up), on the tail.
Does this make sense?
You bring up a reasonable question. Why (if the tail will build ice faster than the main wing), would the tail not stall first?
You are confusing ice build ups with stalls. The two are related, but in different ways.
The main wing and tail wing will stall differently because they are of different design and shape. Additionally, they do not carry the same weight, or force. ALL of the weight (oops I did it again) is transfered through the main wing. Only a portion of force is transferred, and downward I might add (to keep the nose up), on the tail.
Does this make sense?
I'm kicking around the idea of writing someone at NASA an email to get further information on this subject. I'm not sure if that's overkill or not. I perused NASA's website for a bit tonight, and probably will in more depth tomorrow.
10-23-2009, 08:26 PM
#30
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Posts: 348
Originally Posted by shdw
It is irrelevant except for it means large jet aircraft that likely use bleed air systems, not boots or heated surfaces. A bleed air system can be metered to distribute more air to one area than another, even heated systems can be set to produce more heat. Whether or not they are is what I am curious about. Boots on the other hand have no real method for adjustment, they expand, they contract.
See what I mean?
A bleed air system can be metered to distribute more air to one area than another, even heated systems can be set to produce more heat. Whether or not they are is what I am curious about. Boots on the other hand have no real method for adjustment, they expand, they contract. See what I mean?
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