Timbo

Well, all I know is what the Boeing guy told me.

So...why do you propose the 757 is such a 'floater' vs. just about every other big airplane out there?

VTcharter

I would suggest that the reason the "charted" Vref speeds are above the Vmca speeds is because they include a factor (10kts as suggested by Timbo) which is what actually brings them above Vmca. In other words, if you remove 10 knots from the charted value, the new number would be below Vmca and although the wing can handle that number, the tail cannot in an engine out scenario. I doubt the engineers were suggesting adding 10 knots to the published Vref, rather they include the factor for you when deriving it and the other performance numbers are based on this speed. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Biggie

It's been ten years; so, I've forgotten the actual heights. I'll start with the 30' used by one of the posters above (I was an FO on the 757/767, and overheard another FO asking your question). PW and no winglets, by the way.

767, fly your ref speed till 30', reducing your thrust lever to idle and don't flare. The tilting trucks will do the rest of your work.

757, fly your ref speed till 20', reducing your thrust to idle and do a gentle flare.

Greasers every time.

Biggie

P.S. if your flying ref with an additive, slow to ref speed at your 50'ft call (this is what gives you your landing distance, as calculated by Boeing - ref speed @ 50' over the threshold)

sailingfun

I have a bit of time in the 757/767. There are some good comments here and a few not so good. On the reverse thrust issue. Reverse thrusts provides tremendous energy removal. If your using autobrakes however your stopping distances will be more or less the same since the more reverse you use the less autobrake will be commanded. The big difference will be in break temperture. DL has had many recent problems with overheated trucks because pilots used idle reverse on overweight landings with a predictable result. In one case we set the trucks on fire. The difference between idle reverse trust and max reverse thrust on a ER that is heavy at landing will be 1 and 2 on the brake temps verses 6's or more with idle reverse.
As far as landings there is a simple rule on how to handle engine thrust in the flare. If you have EPR gauges then the spooldown time will be slow and the aircraft will float. If you don't have EPR gauges the engines will spool down right now and drop you like a stone if you pull it to idle at 30 feet.

Timbo

Why were they making overweight landings?

This goes directly to my point about situational awareness...

I treat every landing as it's own event, I look at runway length and condition (wet or dry, etc.) winds and landing weight, and plan accordingly. Sometimes I stop quickly, sometimes I let it roll to the end, idle reverse. Anyone who lands the same way every time, without adjusting for the actual situation at hand, is just asking for trouble when things change.

I think all this "Standardization" being preached as Safety, has caused guys to stop thinking, and just do it the same way, every time, wich will get you in trouble when things are "Non-Standard" and you have no idea how to do it differently than "Standard".

I know for a fact, because I have seen it, that when you are dispatched with auto brakes inop, guys will forget...and they touch down and wait...and wait...and then they say, "OH SHT, I forgot we don't have autobrakes!" as you just wizzed past 1000' of pavement waiting for them to kick in. I'll bet you no DC9 or 727 pilot EVER forgot to apply the brakes after touchdown.

But automation makes us lazy, and then when you turn it off...well...get ready for the fun to begin, as you try to catch up and get recurrent in your flying skills...on landing!

sailingfun

My last two overweight landings were after a engine failure and after a woman felt that she had accepted a bomb from a stranger that was in her checked bag. In the case of the engine failure the only divert was rapidly going zero zero. Next option 500 miles away. The trucks on fire was a Rome flight diverting to Milan with a medical emergency.

Timbo

Well in those (emergency) situations, of course you should be using all availabe means to stop the aircraft, my earlier observations were for normal landing situations on long, dry runways, with lighter (not overweight) airplanes, you know, 99% of what we do.

But some guys feel they have to slam it on and get it stopped before the first high speed...

I just don't get it.

badflaps

A couple a months at SNA , it becomes habit.

bringiton

stay on speed all the way down to touchdown. Be well into the flare when 30 is called. A slower speed doesnt grease as easy. And never ever chop the power on any jet to grease it unless you are way too fast. And if you are way to fast probably wont happen.

single best tip is to milk power off and plan to be at idle at touchdown.

Phantom Flyer

For my two cents worth (devalued to $.0087318 on today's market close), there was quite a difference in how one approached landing these three different aircraft and they are three different aircraft aerodynamically. To me, the 757 was always kind of a "crap shoot" in that it seemed to have stiffer gear. The 767-200 and -300 were also different but not as noticeable. I found the -200 the easiest of the three to land.

As a technique, the angle of attack and rate of descent was maintained to approximately the 50 ft call when the rate of decent was checked (NO flare....sorry but I hate that word when talking about swept wing aircraft because they aren't "flared" in a traditional sense). Once the rate of descent has been checked, I always shifted my eyes to the far end of the runway as this was the best way to detect any lateral movement. You want to land all three aircraft straight ahead without any sidewards drift ! From then it's just wait until the grease gun works. The variable is obviously wind, weight, etc as to when the rate of decent is checked and to what degree.I found that this technique works very well on both the -200 and -300.

Great aircraft all and enjoy flying them.

G'Day