Vote NO to TA Delta pilots
08-05-2008, 11:37 AM
#41
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I think the thing that you fail to realize is that they will be able to achieve this merger with out a JPWA until the amendable date of our and NWA's contracts.
With LOA 19 we allowed them the ability to operate this company much in the way that USAir is operated.
Will we be in negotiations? Yes. Will they go anywhere? No.
With LOA 19 we allowed them the ability to operate this company much in the way that USAir is operated.
Will we be in negotiations? Yes. Will they go anywhere? No.
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
#42
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I think the thing that you fail to realize is that they will be able to achieve this merger with out a JPWA until the amendable date of our and NWA's contracts.
With LOA 19 we allowed them the ability to operate this company much in the way that USAir is operated.
Will we be in negotiations? Yes. Will they go anywhere? No.
With LOA 19 we allowed them the ability to operate this company much in the way that USAir is operated.
Will we be in negotiations? Yes. Will they go anywhere? No.
08-05-2008, 11:43 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Well If the DAL side votes NO you can GURENTEE that DAL mgmt gives NWA its own version of LOA 19 to allow our scope protections and NOTHING will have been gained other than dividing our two great pilot groups.
08-05-2008, 11:47 AM
#44
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Hence the reason that I voted YES. Unification at the cost of a slightly better JPWA is worth it for me. I rather have the NWA group as friends than as foes. One team is better than two teams having the same owner. Read my above post.
Guys really need to grasp what voting NO will do to this entire group for the next few decades. I think the NWA guys get it.
Guys really need to grasp what voting NO will do to this entire group for the next few decades. I think the NWA guys get it.
08-05-2008, 11:50 AM
#45
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
FWIW, I think that DAL's sources have probably hinted to him what managements plan B is. I know mine have.
Either scenario will not be fun. This one allows the least amount of pain across the board. I do not see how people cannot see this. Quit looking out for number 1. It is what has in essence killed the effectiveness of our union as a whole.
Either scenario will not be fun. This one allows the least amount of pain across the board. I do not see how people cannot see this. Quit looking out for number 1. It is what has in essence killed the effectiveness of our union as a whole.
08-05-2008, 11:54 AM
#46
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
FWIW, I think that DAL's sources have probably hinted to him what managements plan B is. I know mine have.
Either scenario will not be fun. This one allows the least amount of pain across the board. I do not see how people cannot see this. Quit looking out for number 1. It is what has in essence killed the effectiveness of our union as a whole.
Either scenario will not be fun. This one allows the least amount of pain across the board. I do not see how people cannot see this. Quit looking out for number 1. It is what has in essence killed the effectiveness of our union as a whole.
08-05-2008, 11:54 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
But wait, behind door #2 are 50% raises, 25% DC contributions, everyone upgrading, unlimited happiness for all. At least that's what the NO guys think. It will tick me off if I have to remind them that "hey guys, we told you so". The problem is you and I pay the price. They may just stay stuck in their position but the bottom 10% could hit the street with the next 10% permanently stuck at the training center through displacements.
08-05-2008, 12:00 PM
#48
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
True, and it will not affect them what-so-ever. It will be a win for them.
As you know a 100% pay cut takes a long time to recover from. More than that, not getting this measly 17% now and over the next four years is something that we will never get back either.
Fact is that the pay has nothing to do with this. The fist word in JPWA is Joint. This is our chance to make a merger half way bearable for us the pilots. With some money. All from day 1. What a fricken concept.
It is kind of funny that we the delta pilot group pick this time as the time to vote no to something that has been thrown our way.
As you know a 100% pay cut takes a long time to recover from. More than that, not getting this measly 17% now and over the next four years is something that we will never get back either.
Fact is that the pay has nothing to do with this. The fist word in JPWA is Joint. This is our chance to make a merger half way bearable for us the pilots. With some money. All from day 1. What a fricken concept.
It is kind of funny that we the delta pilot group pick this time as the time to vote no to something that has been thrown our way.
08-05-2008, 12:01 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Nothing worth obtaining is ever easy.
Does anyone think management will ever willingly give us what we're worth? Either now or in 4+ years? Of course they won't. Management will never be as amicable as the DAL pilot group has been.
Do you not think we'll have to take some risk along the way if we expect to even partially restore what used to be a lucrative career?
We won't get anything back until we're willing to risk something.
Less than cost-of-living increases and a negligible DC plan increase, added to a concessionary contract, is not going to cut it.
I'm vulnerable to furloughs. I'll risk it by voting "no" and rolling the dice.
Does anyone think management will ever willingly give us what we're worth? Either now or in 4+ years? Of course they won't. Management will never be as amicable as the DAL pilot group has been.
Do you not think we'll have to take some risk along the way if we expect to even partially restore what used to be a lucrative career?
We won't get anything back until we're willing to risk something.
Less than cost-of-living increases and a negligible DC plan increase, added to a concessionary contract, is not going to cut it.
I'm vulnerable to furloughs. I'll risk it by voting "no" and rolling the dice.
08-05-2008, 12:10 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Stealth voters?
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Problem is that most the people that I have talked to are voting NO.
Even if you have talked to a representative sample of pilots, your informal poll could be misleading. On past MEMRATs, many "yes" voters have materialized at the last minute -- seemingly out of nowhere. Whether they kept silent beforehand, falsely claimed they would vote "no", or simply changed their mind has never been made clear.
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