Originally Posted by milky

Organizing and unionizing does not mean that your job will be better or your company stronger. There are many examples. UAW is a great one.

While F/As do an important job, the arguments here about what they do are still examples of jobs that are not really skilled/professional labor. A bouncer blocks people from entering a door. I don't think anybody would argue that bouncers are anything but unskilled labor. There are many basic jobs that are given basic first aid training and taught how to use a defibrillator. The truth is that somebody can walk off the street and within a few weeks be fully trained to do the job of FA.

Just because you have a lot of coworkers that do the same job as you does not mean that you should be able to hold your company hostage. I believe there is enough competition on both sides of the equation to keep things mostly balanced. There are many companies at which you can be a FA. So, if you don't like the work rules/pay at your company, there are other places to work. The FA can be trained easily enough that the airline should be able to replace a fair enough FAs with whatever the market will accept for pay that they should be able to keep the pay at 'market' price. Just because people are willing to do your job for less money does not mean you should be able to unionize to protect your paycheck. That's bad for the company. It's bad for the country.

By the way, I feel the same way about pilots for the most part. The market has told pilots what they are really worth. Many are finally accepting it and making decisions based upon reality. Some are still clinging to their blame of evil management trying to keep labor down. Unionizing can be a great way for a labor group to fix gross inequities in the market. But, you guys keep complaining that your 'brothers' are screwing you by picking up open time and working on their days off, etc. That's not your brother screwing you. that's your brother telling you that the market of labor is willing to work more hours for less money. It isn't what you want to happen. It isn't what you want to hear. But, it's reality.

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp

I'm sorry, but AFA is notorious for having "issues". My wife is an AFA member, and I have had a good inside look. I would say that on a national scale AFA is notoriously reckless about pursuing job actions (C.H.A.O.S) with little provocation, for the wrong reasons, and without the support of the other unions. Many times, AFA has pursued illegal CHAOS actions and damaged an airline just because they are angry

Originally Posted by chris1987

This is a service job. Like a waiter, you get drinks and pick up trash. If you want to be management apply for it. You dont get rewarded for a PHD if you work at a job that requires a GED.

Originally Posted by DALFA

Well it seems like this thread is getting a little out of hand and people turned it into a F/A vs Pilots thread....

For those who expressed your support, THANK YOU!

For those of you who whould not wear a pin and still were civil and respectful in your reply, THANK YOU!

For those of you that think you are on a pedastall and that everyone else is less deserving than you, and view your fellow crewmembers as "unskilled labour" or "waiters", someone should take that ladder and beat you with it! Next time a F/A is a b!$#@ to you, and makes you wait a little while for you to come out or you have to wait a little longer for your meal...you will know exacly why!

On a last thought...don't look down on your co-workers, doesn't matter if its a CSA or a ramper thats on lav duty. Everyone plays an important role in the operation and we would not be able to operate without any of the employee groups.

Originally Posted by 757Driver

Please don't ever apply at my airline. You'll be running across the picket line as soon as you are able.

Originally Posted by milky

No offense, but you obviously missed the point of my post. I would not work at your airline if I thought there was going to be a need to strike. If I read the tail flash of your avatar correctly, I also know that your airline does not pay enough for me to even consider applying. My value in the market is much higher than that. That is my point. Your glorious unions and work rules have turned being a pilot in your airlines a job that is a conveyor belt. Get on at the lowest pay if you are 'lucky' enough to get hired. Then, just wait for people to die or retire so you can get moved forward just a little bit. Did you get any better or worse at your job in the meantime? Doesn't matter. As long as you don't do one of the things that can get you fired, you will just keep riding the belt along in your 'career.' Oh, and hopefully the belt doesn't accidentally spin backwards and throw you off for a few years because you are furloughed. Oh, and the pay and work rules, etc. that you are willing to strike for may also force your company to lose the tiny profits (who are we kidding here, but we'll assume an airline can be profitable) they have and have to close their doors or furlough you anyway.

As things stand right now, if you were to see me working at your company, I would probably be one of the evil guys you hate that makes a lot of money for doing 'nothing' running the business of the company. Pilots have set up their contracts to be hired help that just hope they can stop the backflow of pay and benefits as the market recedes because of cheap labor flooding your profession. I'm not happy about it, but I do see the reality of the situation. Many of you do not seem to.

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

From your bio, do you have a ATP in a C-310 or an Aztec?
From your indicated experience level you wouldn't get a call from a check hauler.

Originally Posted by milky

You probably shouldn't make assumptions based on online profiles that are not filled out in completion on purpose. For what it's worth, I am in a prime position to transition from my current flying job to any major/legacy/cargo that is hiring. My point was that I will likely take my leadership/management training that goes along with my current flying job and go somewhere that will pay me for my skills not for my position on the conveyor belt. Sad. I love flying, but I value myself more than that.