Incoming! Everyone to the bunker!

 

Actually you need to wake up. Delta doesn't have anywhere near the revenue of UPS nor any profits. AFA is an inferior and ineffective organization and I don't want it infecting my airline or its culture.

You say "Look at our contract" okay, think I'll do that. It pails in comparison to what we had just a few years ago. (while we had non-union work groups) It could be reasoned that your company wide union allegiance is why you currently fly for almost $100/hr less than we did 7 years ago on certain equipment.

ALPA is a necessary evil in regards to safety. Employees are much more effective, not to mention happy, working in a merit based environment.

 

WRONG!!! See if you can get permission to sit in a sim for our annual three day recurrent flight training with maneuvers valuation/proficiency check and see if you don't rethink that STUPID statement. I love our FA's (which is why I don't want to see them tainted) and they will have a valid and important safety function should a serious situation arise. What your statement fails to recognize is through our decision making, experience, and skill we keep "serious situations" from arising hundreds of times a day.

It takes at LEAST 9-10 years of experience to even get invited to a Delta Pilot interview. At any given time a Delta pilot has direct control over the lives of 142-300 people, millions of dollars in assets, and billions of dollars in liability. I respect the wonderful and difficult jobs our FA's do but the positions are in NO WAY comparable.

Just ask the many who were washed out of military, civilian, or airline pilot training if "anyone can do this job". You'll find your statement demonstrably false.

Deez

 

You love your F/A's so much you would have let management outsource our international flying to Chinese or Indian nationals like NWA tried to do in 2005?
Do you remember what the only thing was that prevented that from happening? ...and do you remember what union offered support to PFAA while this was going on?

Let me refresh your memory!

wcco.com - NWA Wants To Hire Foreign Flight Attendants
Airline unions take note of Northwest's outsourcing - Oct. 26, 2005

 

I must take issue with the assertion that in both occupations (FA and Pilot) that anyone can do it but not everyone can do it well. That may hold true for Flight Attendants but is absolutely laughable when it comes to pilots. I have been a flight instructor way too long to stomach or tolerate that one. The mere fact that was put forth on this forum makes an interesting point. At NWA with a Flight Attendant group that has been playing musical unions since they were represented by the ALPA S&S division in the early 1960's until now, one thing has remained constant. That is the FA's collectively think that "2 more weeks of new hire training and I could have been a pilot!" Because of that the mantra of the FA union has remained the same "Egual pay for equal work! we are all on the same airplane we should all be paid the same!" or similar drivel. When AFA infests Delta no net good will come to the pilots, and you will see the FA's try to institute a "MEE TOO!" clause in their contract like they have done at most airlines. "MEEEEE TOO!" is a lot worse for pilots that you might immagine since any thing that you bargain for(except for pay and pension) must be instantly awarded to the FA's also. That means that when you negotiate with management over a perk or benefit you are negotiating for the FA's as well. Without their help I might add. Management sitting accross the table must compute the cost not only for that perk or benefit going to the pilot group but too half-again that many FA's.The "benefits" to the pilots of a unionized FA group only begin there...........Wear that pin at your peril!

 

Neither myself nor any other F/A believes that I should make as much as a pilot, 2 completely different crafts and responsabilities. However I do believe in fair pay and fair increases. If the company can fork out lets say 5% for pilots, then I would say giving the F/A group 5% is fair. 5% for you is alot more than 5% for me, thats what I consider fair. Delta pilots received 23 month furlough protection as part of the merger, why can't I also have that?

AFA has included the MEE TOO scope in their CBA's in the past, and I believe that its a possibility they will continue that.

 

Fair? Do you believe in fair pay cuts as well? Why didn't I hear a rally cry from you when the pilot group took a 48% hit vs. your 21%? Or does your logic only work for pay raises?

J
I'm done here

 

You must have wrong numbers my friend...

Delta F/A's had the highest percentage of pay cuts than any other F/A group, 45%!

Delta F/A's had the highest number of involuntary layoffs than any other F/A group!

 

On the subject of a 48 percent pay cut relative to a 21 percent cut for the FA's I also recall a labor solidarity story. Labor solidarity is supposed to work "on the way up and also on the way down".. In the fall of 2004 the labor coalition at NWA all looked to the pilots for leadership (this was publicly stated by the FA's , the IAM, the TWU,etc. on the subject of a concession package in an attempt to forstall Chapt 11). The jist of things was that if the pilots lead the others will follow only they didn't. So in November of 2004 we agreed to a compensation package reduction of about 20%, right after that the FA's sarcasticly thanked us for taking a paycut so "that they wouldn't have to" . The FA's are always asking for us to commit to honoring their picket lines (we never disclose in advance what we will do as a matter of policy), but when push comes to shove the FA's are a weak unreliable ally at best and a liability on average... The MEE TOO clause definitely limits the economic value that pilots can negotiate for as previously mentioned, simply because what ever you bargain for isn't just attained for 12,000 pilots but then also 18,000 FA's. If you like having your bargaining power diluted , then help the FA's bring in AFA. And remember that in a tough labor battle they will be an ally of questionable value at best.

 

Once again...its not 21% its about 45%.

Top out pay in 2000... $62/hr
Top out pay now... $41/hr

Also, loss of international pay, loss of night pay, lowered LOD pay, gained minutes under ( you can actually loose time!), reduction in purser pay, reduction in vacation etc...

It adds up to approx 45% in pay.