I really think you should try it and after a year let us know how it worked out Marvin.

Did you find him?:rolleyes:

This one is too easy to find.

In addition, non - members can't vote on anything that is union related.

At DAL I doubt anyone would notice or care. You certainly wouldn't feel any blowback on the line. As long as your paying your share, why would it matter that you choose to not vote? The majority don't vote in elections. Union meetings with 30 pilots would be considered well attended. And even contract votes see large percentages just not bothering. Go ahead and opt-out if it makes you feel better. If you don't tell anyone, no one will know.

Same with where I worked. You're paying the contract maintenance fee, so it doesn't really matter. Unless you've crossed a picket line in your past, no one gives a hoot whether you're in, out or in bad standing.

At my first company there was this old cAPTAIN who bagged about not being a member and not having to pay agency shop as he was on property before the union. What he never bragged about was the fact he wouldn't let anyone on the plane but himself serve his drinks as everyone would spit in the cup of ice that came with the drink. Lucky for him the crew meals were self service........

If "non-members" pay the contract negotiation fee, how are they benefiting off the backs of others? You staunch union supporters make me sick! I'm a conservative and would object to having my union dues used for political contributions to liberals. I'm a damn good worker and employee every job I've ever had I work hard and have been promoted sometimes well before others that had seniority over me. I don't need a union. I have found that employers want good employees and will pay/treat their good employees fairly so as to keep them in the fold. Unions are for slugs! I worked in a union print shop as a kid and my god, breaks every 20mins 1 hour lunch and worthless employees! That company went under 3 years after I left. I'm non union and could care less if I'm treated poorly by big government union slug captains. I sleep just fine at night.

"Unions - ideas so good we intimidate you into joining"

Yeah, me too. Know what? Unions are prohibited from using union dues for political contributions. Problem solved.


And what happens when the same employer who picked you for early promotion also picks you to fly that trip that compromises your standards of safety? Winds are out of limits, or the visibility is inadequate, or maybe it's just a matter of being too tired to safely operate an airplane. The employer really, really, really wants the flight to go -- he really needs to get there -- and if you can't break the rules for him, maybe he can find another employee who wants the promotion more to do it.

That's how it used to be, back before pilots got together to collectively say no, safety is more important than promotions based on how much the boss likes us.


You're living in a fantasy world. While such employers exist, they are few and far between. And how do you suppose they determine what "fair" pay is in the first place?

A long history of collective bargaining has established fair compensation -- pay and benefits -- as well as work rules and safety standards. If you think your employer pays well because he's a nice guy, you're a fool. If he could pay you a third and keep you there, he would.

Fair compensation has been elevated to what it is today by decades of collective bargaining. Employers know what they have to pay to keep you from going elsewhere because that's the pay that we have collectively bargained. Would you be willing to work for a tenth of that pay and benefits so you can be promoted ahead of all of your peers?


You sleep fine at night in large part due to the improvements in the industry that have been gained by the sweat and blood of pilots willing to risk their own livelihoods by standing together to make things better for you and everyone else to follow. I know, you can't see that from where you currently sit, so you deserve a little slack.

You deserve a chance to do a little reading, educate yourself a little, and then have another look and reassess your situation. I recommend you begin with this book:

Flying the Line

Happy reading!

(Well, shucks, it looks like you have to be an ALPA member to get a free electronic copy of the book. Tell ya what. PM me your e-mail address, and I'll send you a copy. It comes in iPad, Kindle, Kindle Fire, Nook, Digital Page Turning, PDF, and HTML versions. OR, if you don't want to accept a benefit from a union, you can order your own paper copy from Amazon.com or eBay)




(Oh, and could you please let me know when you plan to call your Captain a "union slug" to his face? I would like to watch.)






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