Originally Posted by awax

A clean sheet Section 6 can take years. Everyone is ****ed and paying attention now, I’ll wait until November and see if they can pull a rabbit out.

The bar is high and will very clearly need to be everything to everybody. If they can’t pull it off, I suspect it’ll be years before we see an agreement.

Originally Posted by Andy

I disagree. The company wants stuff. In order to get stuff, they need to agree to a new contract.

Originally Posted by jerryleber

I was on the MEC until just over two years ago. The briefings were not detailed and the majority was fine with being left in the dark. When we asked for more details the NC would say that they wanted to wait until near the end as all the provisions were interconnected and had to be considered together. We knew the company wanted to get rid of 10:00 am on reserve day one, but we never imagined the NC would allow it to be assigned since they said their bargaining philosophy was to demand carrots since add pay had been so successful. When I asked them on a Zoom call why they didn't make it voluntary they said the company wouldn't agree to that and all the scheduling 'gets'. What gets other than five hours for flying us into RDO/VDOs? We also knew the company wanted to fix international FO landing currency, but we never imagined they would agree to such an arcane and unsafe solution that could cost pilots 60 days of pay. UFB

Pilots cannot imagine how dysfunctional this MEC is, but this TA is a clear demonstration of it.

Originally Posted by awax

A clean sheet Section 6 can take years. Everyone is ****ed and paying attention now, I’ll wait until November and see if they can pull a rabbit out.

The bar is high and will very clearly need to be everything to everybody. If they can’t pull it off, I suspect it’ll be years before we see an agreement.

Originally Posted by EWRflyr

So she was either lying about not getting briefed for 15+ months for dramatic effect or was just asleep at the controls hoping the autopilot would bring it in for a safe landing.

Originally Posted by Hedley

I doubt we see a clean sheet section 6. Poling will have to take place of course, but I’d expect the majority to ask for much less and on a shorter time frame. My guess is TA1 with the following exceptions:

1. No scope give for the 550 or PUP’s
2. Rates around 15%, plus 5% each year
3. No first day of reserve before 1000 unless it’s voluntary with some type of add pay for those who bid it.
4. No WB landings scheme. Maintain current book
5. LCA’s get paid for the trip and not the leg
6. Reassignment rules maintain current book.

Most of us would prefer a great contract with larger increases in rates, retirement, sick leave accrual, etc. We need to go for that, but I think that the polling will show that the majority will settle for less, and the MEC will get its marching orders from the majority, not the APC echo chamber. If TA1 had the things that I listed I’m fairly confident that it would have easily cleared 50%.

Originally Posted by Hedley

I doubt we see a clean sheet section 6. Poling will have to take place of course, but I’d expect the majority to ask for much less and on a shorter time frame. My guess is TA1 with the following exceptions:

1. No scope give for the 550 or PUP’s
2. Rates around 15%, plus 5% each year
3. No first day of reserve before 1000 unless it’s voluntary with some type of add pay for those who bid it.
4. No WB landings scheme. Maintain current book
5. LCA’s get paid for the trip and not the leg
6. Reassignment rules maintain current book.

Most of us would prefer a great contract with larger increases in rates, retirement, sick leave accrual, etc. We need to go for that, but I think that the polling will show that the majority will settle for less, and the MEC will get its marching orders from the majority, not the APC echo chamber. If TA1 had the things that I listed I’m fairly confident that it would have easily cleared 50%.

Originally Posted by TodKindrsChikun

One thing that HAS to be in the new agreement is a disincentive for the company to drag out contracts. Either full retro or pay triggers in perpetuity upon reaching the amendable date.

Originally Posted by TodKindrsChikun

The pilots could also demand a clean sheet contract due to the length of time since the last one.

Originally Posted by Hedley

TA1 is a clean sheet contract, it just stinks. They’re just going to tweak this deal. The narrative from the union will be that it was a struggle to get the company to agree to something like the list that I posted and they refuse to give more. The company will sell it as United working with the pilots to get an industry leading contract to ensure our growth and success. That will easily clear 50%.