C34 Update…interesting read
07-18-2022, 06:17 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
C34 Update…interesting read
Council 34 Update
Council 34 Pilots,
We appreciate your engagement over the past few days. The input and concerns you’ve provided us are invaluable. Your voice has been heard loud and clear on both sides of the table. The earlier survey results may have become stale. To that end, the MEC voted unanimously to have the membership surveyed and polled in the upcoming weeks. Expect more details soon. In this update we will address some frequent questions and concerns:
Extending the TA Ballot Closing
The MEC has extended the vote on the current Tentative Agreement (TA). This action was in response to the Company’s offer to revisit the existing TA. Given that the Company has already agreed to make improvements, risking passage of the current TA and subsequently leaving value on the table was deemed untenable. Rather than withdraw the current TA outright, the MEC decided to keep all options open by extending the voting.
We supported this resolution and voted in favor. The vote was 14 in favor, 4 against, and 1 abstention. The MEC decision to extend the closing of the TA ballot was not an easy one. There’s a line of thinking that by letting the ballot close this last Friday and it failing miserably, we would’ve sent the Company a very clear message. However, that shot across the bow was already duly noted. This was the reason for the Company’s letter with the commitment to work together to attempt to improve the TA.
The consensus was that the risk/reward ratio for the pilot group was most favorable if we followed the path we ultimately chose. We have been offered to restart negotiations using the current TA as a starting point and backstop. The majority of the MEC assessed this to be the best option. The MEC, in good conscience, could not pass up the opportunity to get a better deal for the pilot group.
The Negotiating Process
Pilots make their views known via local meeting attendance and by putting the resolution process to work. The MEC surveys and polls the pilot group to ensure the broadest representation takes place. This also makes up for the inability of the majority of pilots to attend every local council meeting. The Negotiating Committee (NC) follows the direction of the MEC. The MEC, in turn, follows the direction and represents the view of the line pilots. The relationship between the MEC and line pilots needs to be symbiotic.
As negotiations evolve, the NC continuously updates the MEC and the process is adjusted, as necessary, to the will of the MEC. The MEC can direct the cessation of or change of direction in negotiations at any time. MEC members report back to the membership on the progress of negotiations. Line pilots always have the opportunity to ask questions and provide direction.
Where are we headed with this? It’s easy to scapegoat the NC when in actuality, they followed MEC direction and brought back more than was outlined and required by the MEC. If a disconnect developed between line pilot wishes and MEC direction to the NC, we, as your local representatives, have to accept the responsibility for the disconnect.
Surveys and Polling
Since the exchange of opening letters in 2018 to now, the MEC directed the Negotiators based on survey results, working reserve group input, local council resolutions, and the 30,000 to 40,000 PDRs filed every year. In hindsight, some of this input may have been stale, and we wish we had surveyed again right before an AIP was reached.
MEC Approval of UPA 2022
Leading up to the MEC’s 15-4 vote to send the UPA 2022 TA out for membership ratification (MR), the NC continuously updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations and the possible outcomes. Every MEC member had ample opportunity to voice concerns and propose alternatives. Your council officers felt that a two-year agreement with an incremental value over $1.1B was too much to not let the members vote on it.
At every regular quarterly MEC meeting, for over two years, the NC briefed the MEC on progress toward a TA. Each and every time the MEC Chair made it clear that if the direction of the NC was undesirable, the MEC should speak up via a resolution and offer further direction. Not once did the MEC floor any such resolution or object, therefore, they gave tacit approval for the direction of negotiations and that they should continue. The four MEC members who voted against sending the TA out for MR never provided input, alternatives, or even any reason, or reasons, for voting the way they did. Fundamentally, they approved of negotiations until the day of the TA vote.
MEC Dissenting Opinion
We take no offense to other MEC members disagreeing and voting contrary to us. That is the democratic process and dissent is healthy. We approach each vote as they come, by researching, thinking, and debating them.
Make no mistake, the leaders of the loud “no” camp are the same members who voted against LOA 20-05 and advocated for furloughs instead of saving jobs. In hard times, their solution was simply motivated by cowardice and greed. They wanted pilots laid off, and didn't care if pilots could pay their bills, or if their children had medical care.
One of these members who was running for F/O Representative (Rep) at the time actually told her council that “saving the junior pilots wasn’t her job.” She is now a 777 Captain, an F/O Rep /Council Vice Chair, and still “representing” her council in the same selfish and destructive vein.
When these same members claim they are sages or “the only true unionists” and have your best interests at heart, it’s simply wrong. One of these members shares responsibility for the bankruptcy givebacks, the lost decade, 2,172 furloughs and then double furloughs, scope atrocities, and lost pensions. The list of poor results goes on and on and set our pilot group and profession back by at least 15 years. What’s more, this draconian mindset continues with them today. This is what happens when members are motivated by power and self-interest rather than aspiring to improve the lives, pay, working conditions, and careers of the pilot group as a whole.
One doesn’t have to squint very hard to see through their true motivations when during our most recent MEC meeting, it became abundantly clear during our survey input discussion that many of the fundamentals of the TA language were grossly misunderstood by these members. If they don’t understand the very contents of the agreement that we as representatives are responsible for articulating to you in order to make an informed decision, it’s very clear their time has been spent spinning and selling their “no vote” campaign based on their own “facts.”
Political Theater
Just today, in a C11 Vice Chair “special update”, the Rep committed libel - personally attacking her colleagues with false accusations. These serious charges will be addressed, but not in this communication. This Rep also made a false accusation that the MEC Chair has failed to enforce meeting civility and decorum, which is far from the truth. Since the first day of his term, the MEC Chair has worked continuously to ensure a respectful and supportive work environment and rigorously enforced meeting rules, decorum and civility. This is political theater: childish, manufactured crisis and drama. To what exact purpose we don’t know, but it is detracting us from the task at hand: to deliver the best contract possible.
This same Rep claims the MEC wasn’t briefed on the contents on the TA. This is patently false. Since 2019, the negotiators provided a briefing to every newly-elected incoming Rep. In addition, since late last year, the negotiators provided three deep-dive briefings on every item in the TA. Each and every time, the MEC was asked for concerns, objections, thoughts, and offered an exit ramp for the direction of negotiations. Each and every time, this same Rep remained silent.
We remain focused on our goal of delivering a TA that is worthy of your consideration - that brings real value to your families, and tries to recapture years of lost wages, for many, that were negotiated by the scorpions, the dark forces in our union operating in the shadows and on the forums sowing discontent with deceit. Don’t let the political drama fool you. Don’t get stung by a scorpion.
Next Steps
The MEC is working to get the best contract possible. Voting remains open, all votes currently recorded on this TA ballot remain in effect, and your vote can be changed until voting is closed or this TA is withdrawn from consideration. Per ALPA policy, balloting results are unknown until balloting closes.
The new closing date is November 1, 2022. If ALPA and the Company are unable to reach an agreement that improves on the TA, the MEC can move that date up. Again, we have heard you loud and clear – contract surveys and polling will commence soon. Please participate. It is imperative that you continuously make your input and voice heard.
In Unity,
Noel, Jake and Amy
Council 34 Pilots,
We appreciate your engagement over the past few days. The input and concerns you’ve provided us are invaluable. Your voice has been heard loud and clear on both sides of the table. The earlier survey results may have become stale. To that end, the MEC voted unanimously to have the membership surveyed and polled in the upcoming weeks. Expect more details soon. In this update we will address some frequent questions and concerns:
Extending the TA Ballot Closing
The MEC has extended the vote on the current Tentative Agreement (TA). This action was in response to the Company’s offer to revisit the existing TA. Given that the Company has already agreed to make improvements, risking passage of the current TA and subsequently leaving value on the table was deemed untenable. Rather than withdraw the current TA outright, the MEC decided to keep all options open by extending the voting.
We supported this resolution and voted in favor. The vote was 14 in favor, 4 against, and 1 abstention. The MEC decision to extend the closing of the TA ballot was not an easy one. There’s a line of thinking that by letting the ballot close this last Friday and it failing miserably, we would’ve sent the Company a very clear message. However, that shot across the bow was already duly noted. This was the reason for the Company’s letter with the commitment to work together to attempt to improve the TA.
The consensus was that the risk/reward ratio for the pilot group was most favorable if we followed the path we ultimately chose. We have been offered to restart negotiations using the current TA as a starting point and backstop. The majority of the MEC assessed this to be the best option. The MEC, in good conscience, could not pass up the opportunity to get a better deal for the pilot group.
The Negotiating Process
Pilots make their views known via local meeting attendance and by putting the resolution process to work. The MEC surveys and polls the pilot group to ensure the broadest representation takes place. This also makes up for the inability of the majority of pilots to attend every local council meeting. The Negotiating Committee (NC) follows the direction of the MEC. The MEC, in turn, follows the direction and represents the view of the line pilots. The relationship between the MEC and line pilots needs to be symbiotic.
As negotiations evolve, the NC continuously updates the MEC and the process is adjusted, as necessary, to the will of the MEC. The MEC can direct the cessation of or change of direction in negotiations at any time. MEC members report back to the membership on the progress of negotiations. Line pilots always have the opportunity to ask questions and provide direction.
Where are we headed with this? It’s easy to scapegoat the NC when in actuality, they followed MEC direction and brought back more than was outlined and required by the MEC. If a disconnect developed between line pilot wishes and MEC direction to the NC, we, as your local representatives, have to accept the responsibility for the disconnect.
Surveys and Polling
Since the exchange of opening letters in 2018 to now, the MEC directed the Negotiators based on survey results, working reserve group input, local council resolutions, and the 30,000 to 40,000 PDRs filed every year. In hindsight, some of this input may have been stale, and we wish we had surveyed again right before an AIP was reached.
MEC Approval of UPA 2022
Leading up to the MEC’s 15-4 vote to send the UPA 2022 TA out for membership ratification (MR), the NC continuously updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations and the possible outcomes. Every MEC member had ample opportunity to voice concerns and propose alternatives. Your council officers felt that a two-year agreement with an incremental value over $1.1B was too much to not let the members vote on it.
At every regular quarterly MEC meeting, for over two years, the NC briefed the MEC on progress toward a TA. Each and every time the MEC Chair made it clear that if the direction of the NC was undesirable, the MEC should speak up via a resolution and offer further direction. Not once did the MEC floor any such resolution or object, therefore, they gave tacit approval for the direction of negotiations and that they should continue. The four MEC members who voted against sending the TA out for MR never provided input, alternatives, or even any reason, or reasons, for voting the way they did. Fundamentally, they approved of negotiations until the day of the TA vote.
MEC Dissenting Opinion
We take no offense to other MEC members disagreeing and voting contrary to us. That is the democratic process and dissent is healthy. We approach each vote as they come, by researching, thinking, and debating them.
Make no mistake, the leaders of the loud “no” camp are the same members who voted against LOA 20-05 and advocated for furloughs instead of saving jobs. In hard times, their solution was simply motivated by cowardice and greed. They wanted pilots laid off, and didn't care if pilots could pay their bills, or if their children had medical care.
One of these members who was running for F/O Representative (Rep) at the time actually told her council that “saving the junior pilots wasn’t her job.” She is now a 777 Captain, an F/O Rep /Council Vice Chair, and still “representing” her council in the same selfish and destructive vein.
When these same members claim they are sages or “the only true unionists” and have your best interests at heart, it’s simply wrong. One of these members shares responsibility for the bankruptcy givebacks, the lost decade, 2,172 furloughs and then double furloughs, scope atrocities, and lost pensions. The list of poor results goes on and on and set our pilot group and profession back by at least 15 years. What’s more, this draconian mindset continues with them today. This is what happens when members are motivated by power and self-interest rather than aspiring to improve the lives, pay, working conditions, and careers of the pilot group as a whole.
One doesn’t have to squint very hard to see through their true motivations when during our most recent MEC meeting, it became abundantly clear during our survey input discussion that many of the fundamentals of the TA language were grossly misunderstood by these members. If they don’t understand the very contents of the agreement that we as representatives are responsible for articulating to you in order to make an informed decision, it’s very clear their time has been spent spinning and selling their “no vote” campaign based on their own “facts.”
Political Theater
Just today, in a C11 Vice Chair “special update”, the Rep committed libel - personally attacking her colleagues with false accusations. These serious charges will be addressed, but not in this communication. This Rep also made a false accusation that the MEC Chair has failed to enforce meeting civility and decorum, which is far from the truth. Since the first day of his term, the MEC Chair has worked continuously to ensure a respectful and supportive work environment and rigorously enforced meeting rules, decorum and civility. This is political theater: childish, manufactured crisis and drama. To what exact purpose we don’t know, but it is detracting us from the task at hand: to deliver the best contract possible.
This same Rep claims the MEC wasn’t briefed on the contents on the TA. This is patently false. Since 2019, the negotiators provided a briefing to every newly-elected incoming Rep. In addition, since late last year, the negotiators provided three deep-dive briefings on every item in the TA. Each and every time, the MEC was asked for concerns, objections, thoughts, and offered an exit ramp for the direction of negotiations. Each and every time, this same Rep remained silent.
We remain focused on our goal of delivering a TA that is worthy of your consideration - that brings real value to your families, and tries to recapture years of lost wages, for many, that were negotiated by the scorpions, the dark forces in our union operating in the shadows and on the forums sowing discontent with deceit. Don’t let the political drama fool you. Don’t get stung by a scorpion.
Next Steps
The MEC is working to get the best contract possible. Voting remains open, all votes currently recorded on this TA ballot remain in effect, and your vote can be changed until voting is closed or this TA is withdrawn from consideration. Per ALPA policy, balloting results are unknown until balloting closes.
The new closing date is November 1, 2022. If ALPA and the Company are unable to reach an agreement that improves on the TA, the MEC can move that date up. Again, we have heard you loud and clear – contract surveys and polling will commence soon. Please participate. It is imperative that you continuously make your input and voice heard.
In Unity,
Noel, Jake and Amy
07-18-2022, 06:36 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by AlettaOcean
Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that one of the SFO reps was sent home early.
07-18-2022, 07:25 PM
#7
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
They don’t want to leave money on the table and risk passage of the TA. Just keep reading those thoughts, OVER AND OVER.
Brought to you by the merry band who voted to approve this abomination. Thank the Lord our Savior these fine people are here to save us from THEMSELVES.
Recall every last one of them. When we’re done, then it’s on to Hamilton, the NC + 1, and all the other FTFPL grifters.
Oh and my agenda? A real contract vs an extension of add pay and “we think/we don’t believe” concessionary contract. We won’t get anything close to what we can negotiate until these people are gone.
$1.3B my Lily White…
Brought to you by the merry band who voted to approve this abomination. Thank the Lord our Savior these fine people are here to save us from THEMSELVES.
Recall every last one of them. When we’re done, then it’s on to Hamilton, the NC + 1, and all the other FTFPL grifters.
Oh and my agenda? A real contract vs an extension of add pay and “we think/we don’t believe” concessionary contract. We won’t get anything close to what we can negotiate until these people are gone.
$1.3B my Lily White…
07-18-2022, 08:15 PM
#8
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
And doesn’t mean someone’s hysteria wasn’t placated by said rep leaving the meeting early. Or to de escalate the situation. Who knows the real reason, Anne?
07-18-2022, 08:39 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
So she was either lying about not getting briefed for 15+ months for dramatic effect or was just asleep at the controls hoping the autopilot would bring it in for a safe landing.
Why are you such a simp for this MEC? Were you in the room when this happened? It seems that either you are a SME getting a sweetheart deal to get to sit on these meetings, or you just have an LEC buddy that's feeding you information.
Which is it?
I don't expect you to answer since this board is anonymous, but don't say someone else is lying unless u can prove you were in the room during these meetings.
If you weren't there, have a seat. If you were there, then prove it.
The MEC yes voter's water is over there in the corner, why don't you go over and pick it up...🙄
This guy is probably a member of the ALPA comm committee. He's probably getting paid FTFPL to post his BS on this board and others.
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