DANGEROUS TK Hiring Practices
11-01-2022, 07:15 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by horrido27
AH-
I've always wondered about that but it seems to be a historic way of doing things..
But, I wonder- and hopefully it's answered here..
Does the USNavy do the same? What about the USArmy and rotorcraft? I'm aware the USMC doesn't have their own basic flight school, and uses the USN.. but do newly minted Marine Corps Aviators turn around and teach?
What one organization does, doesn't always translate to another organizations thoughts.
I have never thought is was a good idea to take newhires and turn them into PI's. But then again, I also don't thing you should be hired without a College Degree, or without some 121/135 Captain Experience or military flight background.
Guess I'm just that old guy now.. lol
Having gone through 2 full courses at TK this year, I can say that the instructors for the most part were ok. Some better than others. But-
The first course it was myself and another senior FO going through the 78 (full) course. We "knew" the game and didn't fall for some of the BS.
The second course I was with a NewHire (great guy) and again, I "knew" the game and I had to step up a few times.
What happens with 2 newhire FO's being instructed by a low experience PI?
I had a senior PI tell me that there are times when two newbies just don't get everything done in the sim and he gives them an incomplete. Not their fault.. it's the way the sim are syllabus is set up.
Management has one goal. Make Money.
They do that by cutting corners wherever they can.
The reason we are seeing the influx of super junior pilots into the training department is no different that what has happened with the narrowbody Left Seat Vacancies. Midlevel and Senior Pilots don't want the heartache (and pay associated with it) and those junior pilots don't really know what they are getting themselves into!
End of the day, we both know that the 1.5 year on property PI will be able to instruct the 1.5 year on property New Capt along with a New Hire FO.
BUT..
Should it be that way?!
Good Discussion~
Always
Motch
I've always wondered about that but it seems to be a historic way of doing things..
But, I wonder- and hopefully it's answered here..
Does the USNavy do the same? What about the USArmy and rotorcraft? I'm aware the USMC doesn't have their own basic flight school, and uses the USN.. but do newly minted Marine Corps Aviators turn around and teach?
What one organization does, doesn't always translate to another organizations thoughts.
I have never thought is was a good idea to take newhires and turn them into PI's. But then again, I also don't thing you should be hired without a College Degree, or without some 121/135 Captain Experience or military flight background.
Guess I'm just that old guy now.. lol
Having gone through 2 full courses at TK this year, I can say that the instructors for the most part were ok. Some better than others. But-
The first course it was myself and another senior FO going through the 78 (full) course. We "knew" the game and didn't fall for some of the BS.
The second course I was with a NewHire (great guy) and again, I "knew" the game and I had to step up a few times.
What happens with 2 newhire FO's being instructed by a low experience PI?
I had a senior PI tell me that there are times when two newbies just don't get everything done in the sim and he gives them an incomplete. Not their fault.. it's the way the sim are syllabus is set up.
Management has one goal. Make Money.
They do that by cutting corners wherever they can.
The reason we are seeing the influx of super junior pilots into the training department is no different that what has happened with the narrowbody Left Seat Vacancies. Midlevel and Senior Pilots don't want the heartache (and pay associated with it) and those junior pilots don't really know what they are getting themselves into!
End of the day, we both know that the 1.5 year on property PI will be able to instruct the 1.5 year on property New Capt along with a New Hire FO.
BUT..
Should it be that way?!
Good Discussion~
Always
Motch
I was in and out of TK for 13 years and am a newly minted LCA, with 25 years on property and about 5 years total on my current fleet with about 3k in type. My LCA class were all very experienced.
The complaint I’m hearing about TK from my old instructor buddies is that since GG took over it’s all about quantity at the expense of quality. It’s become a training factory producing volume pilot widgets.
The product I’ve been exposed to on the line with IOE has been pretty good so far but I’m a rank beginner in the LCA business. I do hear stories about troubles with new pilots, I don’t have any juicy stories of my own yet.
Just edited to add;
The civilian model of training is pretty much the same as the AF FAIP model. A pilot gets their CFI and before the ink is dry they are doing 100 touch and goes a week with brand new students. At least that’s what it has become. Of course most schools have older more experienced pilots running herd on the newbies.
Green on green training is the new industry standard apparently. I guess the question is, are we producing sufficiently safe and skilled pilots?
Last edited by Airhoss; 11-01-2022 at 07:28 AM.
11-01-2022, 07:40 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,219
Originally Posted by horrido27
AH-
I've always wondered about that but it seems to be a historic way of doing things..
But, I wonder- and hopefully it's answered here..
Does the USNavy do the same? What about the USArmy and rotorcraft? I'm aware the USMC doesn't have their own basic flight school, and uses the USN.. but do newly minted Marine Corps Aviators turn around and teach?
What one organization does, doesn't always translate to another organizations thoughts.
I have never thought is was a good idea to take newhires and turn them into PI's. But then again, I also don't thing you should be hired without a College Degree, or without some 121/135 Captain Experience or military flight background.
Guess I'm just that old guy now.. lol
Having gone through 2 full courses at TK this year, I can say that the instructors for the most part were ok. Some better than others. But-
The first course it was myself and another senior FO going through the 78 (full) course. We "knew" the game and didn't fall for some of the BS.
The second course I was with a NewHire (great guy) and again, I "knew" the game and I had to step up a few times.
What happens with 2 newhire FO's being instructed by a low experience PI?
I had a senior PI tell me that there are times when two newbies just don't get everything done in the sim and he gives them an incomplete. Not their fault.. it's the way the sim are syllabus is set up.
Management has one goal. Make Money.
They do that by cutting corners wherever they can.
The reason we are seeing the influx of super junior pilots into the training department is no different that what has happened with the narrowbody Left Seat Vacancies. Midlevel and Senior Pilots don't want the heartache (and pay associated with it) and those junior pilots don't really know what they are getting themselves into!
End of the day, we both know that the 1.5 year on property PI will be able to instruct the 1.5 year on property New Capt along with a New Hire FO.
BUT..
Should it be that way?!
Good Discussion~
Always
Motch
I've always wondered about that but it seems to be a historic way of doing things..
But, I wonder- and hopefully it's answered here..
Does the USNavy do the same? What about the USArmy and rotorcraft? I'm aware the USMC doesn't have their own basic flight school, and uses the USN.. but do newly minted Marine Corps Aviators turn around and teach?
What one organization does, doesn't always translate to another organizations thoughts.
I have never thought is was a good idea to take newhires and turn them into PI's. But then again, I also don't thing you should be hired without a College Degree, or without some 121/135 Captain Experience or military flight background.
Guess I'm just that old guy now.. lol
Having gone through 2 full courses at TK this year, I can say that the instructors for the most part were ok. Some better than others. But-
The first course it was myself and another senior FO going through the 78 (full) course. We "knew" the game and didn't fall for some of the BS.
The second course I was with a NewHire (great guy) and again, I "knew" the game and I had to step up a few times.
What happens with 2 newhire FO's being instructed by a low experience PI?
I had a senior PI tell me that there are times when two newbies just don't get everything done in the sim and he gives them an incomplete. Not their fault.. it's the way the sim are syllabus is set up.
Management has one goal. Make Money.
They do that by cutting corners wherever they can.
The reason we are seeing the influx of super junior pilots into the training department is no different that what has happened with the narrowbody Left Seat Vacancies. Midlevel and Senior Pilots don't want the heartache (and pay associated with it) and those junior pilots don't really know what they are getting themselves into!
End of the day, we both know that the 1.5 year on property PI will be able to instruct the 1.5 year on property New Capt along with a New Hire FO.
BUT..
Should it be that way?!
Good Discussion~
Always
Motch
11-01-2022, 08:59 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
Originally Posted by myrkridia
I heard it stands for Training and Knowledge, sometimes jokingly called Training Kingdom.
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