Fleet plan
07-09-2017 | 09:32 PM
#91
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For example, the UAL/CAL merger which was the first significant merger under the current policy which is important considering the major revision to the current policy was to specifically include longevity.
Each merger is arbitrated on it's own merits and considering the three primary components of the current policy I'd suggest that a UAL/JB combination would be quite asymmetric on all three counts and certainly far more than UAL/CAL. YMMV.
07-10-2017 | 04:10 AM
#92
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Ummm....that's a pretty meaningless average considering that ALPA merger policy significantly changed over the course of those mergers.
For example, the UAL/CAL merger which was the first significant merger under the current policy which is important considering the major revision to the current policy was to specifically include longevity.
Each merger is arbitrated on it's own merits and considering the three primary components of the current policy I'd suggest that a UAL/JB combination would be quite asymmetric on all three counts and certainly far more than UAL/CAL. YMMV.
For example, the UAL/CAL merger which was the first significant merger under the current policy which is important considering the major revision to the current policy was to specifically include longevity.
Each merger is arbitrated on it's own merits and considering the three primary components of the current policy I'd suggest that a UAL/JB combination would be quite asymmetric on all three counts and certainly far more than UAL/CAL. YMMV.
The slotting would be significantly higher than most of the recent guesses here.....to think otherwise is foolish.
But it's never going to happen right...so no need for either side to worry....
07-10-2017 | 05:13 AM
#93
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Everybody needs to take the emotion out of it. Not easy, I know, and that's why there are arbitrators. There are three key factors in the current ALPA merger policy that must considered. Rationally look at those for insight, not a wag of how other mergers went down.
But ---and here's the elephant in the room--- if something happens before JB gets a collective bargaining agreement with solid successorship language all bets are off. JB pilots simply have no foundation to base their claims, including continued employment after a transaction of any sort.
It could make SWA/AirTran look like a walk in the park----and that was two narrowbody airlines. AirTran had weak language (relatively speaking) which partially enabled SWA to pull its stunt with a management and union on the same page exploiting every loophole. Now consider an entity with status-quo language that actually makes things worse for its pilots.
That's something that JB pilots can control, not UA.
Last edited by cadetdrivr; 07-10-2017 at 05:26 AM.
07-10-2017 | 05:40 AM
#94
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Joined: Oct 2012
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From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Unfortunately that would be a given regardless of outcome. We are talking about two VERY different airlines in virtually every aspect.
Nope, just the terrible two hundred.
Everybody needs to take the emotion out of it. Not easy, I know, and that's why there are arbitrators. There are three key factors in the current ALPA merger policy that must considered. Rationally look at those for insight, not a wag of how other mergers went down.
But ---and here's the elephant in the room--- if something happens before JB gets a collective bargaining agreement with solid successorship language all bets are off. JB pilots simply have no foundation to base their claims, including continued employment after a transaction of any sort.
It could make SWA/AirTran look like a walk in the park----and that was two narrowbody airlines. AirTran had weak language (relatively speaking) which partially enabled SWA to pull its stunt with a management and union on the same page exploiting every loophole. Now consider an entity with status-quo language that actually makes things worse for its pilots.
That's something that JB pilots can control, not UA.
Nope, just the terrible two hundred.
Everybody needs to take the emotion out of it. Not easy, I know, and that's why there are arbitrators. There are three key factors in the current ALPA merger policy that must considered. Rationally look at those for insight, not a wag of how other mergers went down.
But ---and here's the elephant in the room--- if something happens before JB gets a collective bargaining agreement with solid successorship language all bets are off. JB pilots simply have no foundation to base their claims, including continued employment after a transaction of any sort.
It could make SWA/AirTran look like a walk in the park----and that was two narrowbody airlines. AirTran had weak language (relatively speaking) which partially enabled SWA to pull its stunt with a management and union on the same page exploiting every loophole. Now consider an entity with status-quo language that actually makes things worse for its pilots.
That's something that JB pilots can control, not UA.
So let's assume UA is in talks to buy JB. I assume they would be talking right now and this would not be a surprise to our management. At the same time we are negotiating a CBA. Would it be better for UA to do the deal after a CBA which would have clear language for us or try to grab us now and who knows what that would lead to.
07-10-2017 | 07:11 AM
#96
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From: 737 CAPT
This would make Spirit a deal (plus wishful thinking on my part). Market share is only 3.5 billion, almost no debt, and 900 million in free cash in the bank. Merger would only cost a little over 2.5 billion, plus we can send our "hard working" management off into the golden parachute land...
07-10-2017 | 09:15 AM
#100
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A) SWA-AirTran was a decided without an arbitrator. It would be hard to include that as evidance in a an arbitrated SLI.
B) What is shocking and even more so disappointing, is seening LUAL and LCAL guys proposing a SLI that would include all the things they hated about the CAL-UAL SLI. Again it is all about "me", and not about what is "right" for all while setting an example of being professional.
B) What is shocking and even more so disappointing, is seening LUAL and LCAL guys proposing a SLI that would include all the things they hated about the CAL-UAL SLI. Again it is all about "me", and not about what is "right" for all while setting an example of being professional.
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