SWA or UAL?
03-06-2018 | 09:07 AM
#151
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 43
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From: Middle
Albie,
I am a United furloughee from 2008 and a current Southwest 7 year F/O and here is my advice for your friend:
1) Always drive to work vs commute if at all possible
2) Keep your first wife if at all possible
3) Nothing is certain in this industry. Don't believe the quick upgrades at United or the oft repeated they have a ton of retirements so you're golden, etc. My sim partner at United in 2008 was a 16 year 75/76 FO and finally took the A320 Upgrade. I was furloughed 5 months after completing training and within 9 months he was bumped from his Capt seat and downgraded back to 75.76 FO. Things can change in a hurry. Instead, look at the history of the company, the culture, their financials and their leadership team.
So, what am I saying....given the information you have provided it is a no brainer. Southwest all the way!
Best wishes.
P.S. -- pass this along as one data point for him as a guy living in domicile. 2017, 6 yr. F/O pay total compensation 285K and I worked less days than the average line holding narrow body United pilot. Caveat -- when I am at work -- we work -- very productive, but tiring trips for the most part. But stats don't lie -- less days at work for more pay.
I am a United furloughee from 2008 and a current Southwest 7 year F/O and here is my advice for your friend:
1) Always drive to work vs commute if at all possible
2) Keep your first wife if at all possible
3) Nothing is certain in this industry. Don't believe the quick upgrades at United or the oft repeated they have a ton of retirements so you're golden, etc. My sim partner at United in 2008 was a 16 year 75/76 FO and finally took the A320 Upgrade. I was furloughed 5 months after completing training and within 9 months he was bumped from his Capt seat and downgraded back to 75.76 FO. Things can change in a hurry. Instead, look at the history of the company, the culture, their financials and their leadership team.
So, what am I saying....given the information you have provided it is a no brainer. Southwest all the way!
Best wishes.
P.S. -- pass this along as one data point for him as a guy living in domicile. 2017, 6 yr. F/O pay total compensation 285K and I worked less days than the average line holding narrow body United pilot. Caveat -- when I am at work -- we work -- very productive, but tiring trips for the most part. But stats don't lie -- less days at work for more pay.
03-06-2018 | 11:01 AM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
UAL want you want options. If you can drive to a SWA go there.
Either is a gamble. SWA isn’t the scrappy little start up they used to be, they’re a major carrier now with all the problems that go with being a major. My friends there tell me the culture has changed markedly over the last 10-20 years as well. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Regardless of who you chose, FX/WN/UA/DL etc etc etc, all you can do is make the best desicion with the info available now because history has proven there is zero chance that anyone will predict with any certainty who will rise and who will fall. Anyone that tells you they can you most certainly should NOT listen to. The list of major airlines that have gone out of business is larger than the number in business now.
May the odds be ever in your favor.
Either is a gamble. SWA isn’t the scrappy little start up they used to be, they’re a major carrier now with all the problems that go with being a major. My friends there tell me the culture has changed markedly over the last 10-20 years as well. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Regardless of who you chose, FX/WN/UA/DL etc etc etc, all you can do is make the best desicion with the info available now because history has proven there is zero chance that anyone will predict with any certainty who will rise and who will fall. Anyone that tells you they can you most certainly should NOT listen to. The list of major airlines that have gone out of business is larger than the number in business now.
May the odds be ever in your favor.
03-06-2018 | 07:59 PM
#155
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Likes: 1
Albie,
I am a United furloughee from 2008 and a current Southwest 7 year F/O and here is my advice for your friend:
1) Always drive to work vs commute if at all possible
2) Keep your first wife if at all possible
3) Nothing is certain in this industry. Don't believe the quick upgrades at United or the oft repeated they have a ton of retirements so you're golden, etc. My sim partner at United in 2008 was a 16 year 75/76 FO and finally took the A320 Upgrade. I was furloughed 5 months after completing training and within 9 months he was bumped from his Capt seat and downgraded back to 75.76 FO. Things can change in a hurry. Instead, look at the history of the company, the culture, their financials and their leadership team.
So, what am I saying....given the information you have provided it is a no brainer. Southwest all the way!
Best wishes.
P.S. -- pass this along as one data point for him as a guy living in domicile. 2017, 6 yr. F/O pay total compensation 285K and I worked less days than the average line holding narrow body United pilot. Caveat -- when I am at work -- we work -- very productive, but tiring trips for the most part. But stats don't lie -- less days at work for more pay.
I am a United furloughee from 2008 and a current Southwest 7 year F/O and here is my advice for your friend:
1) Always drive to work vs commute if at all possible
2) Keep your first wife if at all possible
3) Nothing is certain in this industry. Don't believe the quick upgrades at United or the oft repeated they have a ton of retirements so you're golden, etc. My sim partner at United in 2008 was a 16 year 75/76 FO and finally took the A320 Upgrade. I was furloughed 5 months after completing training and within 9 months he was bumped from his Capt seat and downgraded back to 75.76 FO. Things can change in a hurry. Instead, look at the history of the company, the culture, their financials and their leadership team.
So, what am I saying....given the information you have provided it is a no brainer. Southwest all the way!
Best wishes.
P.S. -- pass this along as one data point for him as a guy living in domicile. 2017, 6 yr. F/O pay total compensation 285K and I worked less days than the average line holding narrow body United pilot. Caveat -- when I am at work -- we work -- very productive, but tiring trips for the most part. But stats don't lie -- less days at work for more pay.
If this guy had a Reserve gig or wife had good prospects in a United town, I would have told him to base his choice on what he wanted to do 10 years from now and hope for the best. But--they are anchored--and that makes SWA a (as others pointed out) damn good job better than 95% of world has, and a great way to make a living.
Regardless of where you live/fly, I think having a diversified source of both money and joy is important. ANG, side gig, spouse job...all play into the mix. Strap on to just your airline job for your finances or your happiness, and you'll ride a few cycles up and down....
Thanks for the input--generally a pretty good discussion.
03-06-2018 | 09:46 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
From: 737 Right
That is the proverbial $64,000 question....I have 10 year recall rights so I have until Sept 2018 to return. Mind is pretty much made up to stay put with SWA -- I live in domicile, make great $ with a very financially stable company. The ONLY option that is remotely appealing is 777/787 FO out of SFO or LAX but that would mean commuting. The plus would be less days working for about the same $ I make now as a SWA FO. However, I am about 2 - 2.5 years away from upgrade where the $ will far surpass what I would make as a wide body FO at United. Also, I've never done the long haul wide body flying -- might love it, might hate it. But there is no going back. I have a very comfortable life now with the ability to just coast until retirement in 13.5 years.
Also, there is risk in the wide body flying that United does -- could the ME3 and others like Iceland Air and WOW crush them with a capacity war? Who knows but I do know that Southwest does not have to worry about competition from the ME3 poaching their domestic or even near-international flying. Could United shrink their wide body flying over the next decade due to competition from others?
So, long answer to an easy question -- 99% sure I am staying put.
03-06-2018 | 10:47 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
Motch,
That is the proverbial $64,000 question....I have 10 year recall rights so I have until Sept 2018 to return. Mind is pretty much made up to stay put with SWA -- I live in domicile, make great $ with a very financially stable company. The ONLY option that is remotely appealing is 777/787 FO out of SFO or LAX but that would mean commuting. The plus would be less days working for about the same $ I make now as a SWA FO. However, I am about 2 - 2.5 years away from upgrade where the $ will far surpass what I would make as a wide body FO at United. Also, I've never done the long haul wide body flying -- might love it, might hate it. But there is no going back. I have a very comfortable life now with the ability to just coast until retirement in 13.5 years.
Also, there is risk in the wide body flying that United does -- could the ME3 and others like Iceland Air and WOW crush them with a capacity war? Who knows but I do know that Southwest does not have to worry about competition from the ME3 poaching their domestic or even near-international flying. Could United shrink their wide body flying over the next decade due to competition from others?
So, long answer to an easy question -- 99% sure I am staying put.
That is the proverbial $64,000 question....I have 10 year recall rights so I have until Sept 2018 to return. Mind is pretty much made up to stay put with SWA -- I live in domicile, make great $ with a very financially stable company. The ONLY option that is remotely appealing is 777/787 FO out of SFO or LAX but that would mean commuting. The plus would be less days working for about the same $ I make now as a SWA FO. However, I am about 2 - 2.5 years away from upgrade where the $ will far surpass what I would make as a wide body FO at United. Also, I've never done the long haul wide body flying -- might love it, might hate it. But there is no going back. I have a very comfortable life now with the ability to just coast until retirement in 13.5 years.
Also, there is risk in the wide body flying that United does -- could the ME3 and others like Iceland Air and WOW crush them with a capacity war? Who knows but I do know that Southwest does not have to worry about competition from the ME3 poaching their domestic or even near-international flying. Could United shrink their wide body flying over the next decade due to competition from others?
So, long answer to an easy question -- 99% sure I am staying put.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-.../5000/all-info
03-07-2018 | 12:27 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
From: 737 Right
03-07-2018 | 05:05 AM
#160
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
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