SWA is 65% hedged against 2022 fuel price spikes
SWA is handing out premium like candy to a kid, with no end in sight. Be careful what you bid on, you'll likely get it.
SWA commute is tough because the company paid for lower MZFW limits to get lower landing fees, and now that we've gotten fat it's creating issues getting commuters on. (Our JS is not part of the BOE)
SWA is years behind United in a technology sense, but that can work to our advantage at times. Especially with our Hard Line bidding and monthly overlap and vacation conflict bidding.
SWA is not dependent on any international markets to open back up.
Reserve here is not terrible. We don't do airport standby. If you live local to a base it can be a good gig.
Upgrade is coming down if you live on the west coast...those saying its still 10-11+ years are likely not interested in commuting to OAK or LAX.
Depending on your age, I'd bet money you'll see a 2nd AC type on property as Boeing is done with the 737 after the Max.
Contract negotiations are same as every where else...not going quickly. What's new?

 

Soon to be retired AF. The family and I want to move back to TX so SWA and UAL look great to me. I know IAH is senior and I'll be sitting reserve for some time there if I go UAL. I know I can upgrade sooner on NB at UAL, but will have to commute to SFO/LAX/EWR. I believe if I go SWA I could hold DAL within a year, but no upgrade until year 10. I understand SWA has great scheduling flexibility which would allow for more money as an FO; not so much at UAL while on reserve.

I don't mind commuting as a junior captain but only if I can hold a line. I assume the extra days I spend at UAL commuting as a junior captain would equate to the extra days I would work at SWA as an FO trying to pad my paycheck. Does this check? How many years at UAL can a junior captain hold a line at one of the junior bases?

My goal is to put the max amount of money into savings & retirement accounts for the next 20 years while living a comfortable life with some toys. Widebody flying does interest me, but it's not a deal breaker. I'd be happy in a 737 for the next 20 years so that's not a concern. I've seen plenty of overseas flying so that's also not a concern. Just wondering if I'm crazy thinking SWA might be the better option for me given my goals.

 

You'll get narrowbody IAH at UA quicker than you think. A lot quicker. Times around the system are going to be thrown out the window in the next year or two barring any major events... unfilled captain spots in DC in addition to the other coasts you mentioned. 787 FO lines went as low as 7 years recently.

 

You may be able to upgrade to captain sooner at UAL, but being a lineholder is a different story. So you would still have to plan on commuting for several years as a reserve. That could be as little as 5 years or much longer even in the most junior CA domicile. Commuting to reserve, especially here is abysmal. The Jr NB lineholder in IAH was hired just under a year ago, although you might find that working less and sitting reserve in domicile is preferable to working more on a jr line.

 

So you want IAH.

Question for current UAL guys... what's the DOH of the junior captain in IAH? What is the utilization rate of the NB reserve captains at UAL and how much do they credit?

At SWA, you should be able to get HOU or DAL within a couple of months as hiring ramps up. Our reserve works fewer days than elsewhere and can pay really well because jerking you around even on reserve pays on top of what you started the month with. It's not uncommon to credit 120-130 TFP or more on reserve while only flying your line (103-115 hours if you go on hours).

The biggest downside of SWA vs. UAL is upgrade time. Plan on 8-10 year upgrade at SWA. This is all based on UAL having multiple airframes and the ability to change between various NB and WB fleets, and that cannot be understated. To put things in perspective for you, think of where you need to be at the master seniority list in order to upgrade and into what airframe. Maybe we can have another UAL guy chime in here with some updated numbers, but you can upgrade into a NB in the 90% range and be a reserve NB captain at UAL. I'm sure that by the time you reach 75-80% on the seniority list, you'll be a line holder NB captain at UAL. I recall somewhere that UAL's junior 756 CA went to someone who was at 64% system seniority or thereabouts, and I'm sure by the time you reach that seniority, you can hold a rather decent schedule as a NB captain at UAL. By comparison, you need to be right at 60% on the master seniority to hold the most junior captain seat at SWA which will most likely mean a commute to OAK. Comparatively, the time to upgrade at SWA is the same as upgrade on a WB at UAL. Something to think about.

 

I don't blame anyone for thinking SWA might be a better option for them, I did so myself. Even though landing at UAL made me a permanent commuter, it has turned out far better for me than I realized at the time. The big difference between the two is that you will have many more options to choose from over here. I started out envisioning a quick upgrade to CA... and instead I loitered in NB FO until I was consistently making more money than a reserve WB FO and getting every day off I wanted to boot. In several recent months I was able to make more than a reserve NB CA without topping more than 60 hours of actual flight time a month. I could have made more if I was willing to work right up to FAR 117 limits. Now I'm off to WB and will be a LH out the gate. If long haul doesn't float my boat, I should be able to bid into NB CA and be a LH by then as well. I could have bid NB CA just prior to the pandemic. Seven years here now in a junior base, and the upgrade times are getting shorter as I type.

One huge, huge benefit at UAL vs. SWA is the pass travel benefit. I'm guessing at SWA if you pass travel with your family on a full flight you will consistently be split up around the cabin in middle seats. My big family gets split up too, but we usually get pairs together in Econ+. And since my wife is from Europe, we take advantage of UAL's network to see my inlaws every summer. Not only have we saved tens of thousands of dollars, but we swing Polaris seats about 50% of the time. That all may not matter squat to you, but it didn't matter to me either before I got hired because I didn't have a clue about it.

I happen to know a Nov 21 new hire on the 756, he made it into IAH on one of the Nov/Dec vacancies and started in IAH this month. Most guys don't get that lucky, but with all the growth plans you'd have a good shot at getting into IAH within six months (and maybe even out of Indoc like a few did last fall). It would be good for you to try commuting for a bit out the gate anyways, you may find it so disagreeable that you decide a quick upgrade is not your thing.

Most importantly, take the job where you get your first offer.

 

I don't think a "quick" upgrade and IAH are in the same mental thought. You have way more options at UAL to see or do whatever type of flying you get the itch for. Much more interesting overnights and diverse cultures with different fleets. Some people can coast to retirement with just seeing the same Costa Rica pool and free breakfast 8 times a month but at least he has the option to do something else.

I do think SWA is going to have a great next contract. Their management is completely different from 20 yrs ago and their pilots are motivated to fix the big issues. The honeymoon is over with a lot of their work groups. Our contract has very large soft spots in reserve/field standby, expensive medical, vacation pay per day, and our PBS isn't user friendly, timely, and it takes large amounts of time to submit a bid every month. Most of my swa friends are very happy and upgrade times aren't predictable.

 

You’re not crazy. Both are great options.

You have a shorter time horizon than many on here, so WB CA should not play into your calculus. Honestly, career pay-wise, it’s probably a wash between the two. Today is probably a terrible predictor of future staffing requirements. If I had to start over right now in a similar situation (DEN), I’d take the first class date and never look back. You can work angles at both to hustle or stay home, and after a year or two you’ll figure out if upgrades or commutes are worth it to you. Some people are very hung up bout the equipment they fly or the seat they’re in, but you seem to be unfazed by that. Good luck.

 

~40% reserve utilization across all fleets. ~30% chance you get used off of Fields or Shorts. I don't know how many are breaking guarantee - or even trying to for that matter.

Junior IAH 737CAs had an overnight hail-mary pass caught for a touchdown. The junior man was a surprise.

 

I am 58% in the company and just started holding a line as a 737 CA in EWR. 75-80% overall is nowhere close to a lineholding CA even at a junior base. That said I’ve been here 9 years and things can and will change going forward…for the better or for worse.