More 797 details
06-29-2018 | 06:52 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 709
Likes: 6
From: 320 Captain
It seems UAL is the primary customer for the 737 MAX 9 and 10.
Meanwhile, the 321 NEO outsells the large MAXs 5-to-1. (Sales of the 320 NEO and the MAX 8 are far more similar.)
Since these sorts of decisions are made by CFOs I'm gonna assume that economics are indeed the primary driver. Which begs the question: was UAL given an insanely awesome sweetheart deal on these large MAXs or are we simply the outlier? Or both? Or something else?
Meanwhile, the 321 NEO outsells the large MAXs 5-to-1. (Sales of the 320 NEO and the MAX 8 are far more similar.)
Since these sorts of decisions are made by CFOs I'm gonna assume that economics are indeed the primary driver. Which begs the question: was UAL given an insanely awesome sweetheart deal on these large MAXs or are we simply the outlier? Or both? Or something else?
But I would bet that Boeing, loathe to write a big $$$ check, offered additional discounts on future orders as the compensation.
06-30-2018 | 05:05 PM
#33
Don't say Guppy
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: Guppy driver
A couple of weeks ago I did a non-rev from SEA to DC and back. All the flights were fairly full so it was middle seat in coach for sure. I could have flown non-stop in a Guppy, or stop in ORD in a bus. I accepted the 2 hour travel time increase, and rode the bus. Both ways. Very easy choice.
06-30-2018 | 05:26 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Pilot ;)
A couple of weeks ago I did a non-rev from SEA to DC and back. All the flights were fairly full so it was middle seat in coach for sure. I could have flown non-stop in a Guppy, or stop in ORD in a bus. I accepted the 2 hour travel time increase, and rode the bus. Both ways. Very easy choice.
You must have a lot of days off to go wasting time like that...
06-30-2018 | 05:57 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
Seems no t many have been paying attention to the structural studies Boeing has been doing.
Based on a carbon structure, you don't need a circular fuselage crossection any more. There are huge structural benefits to vary the crossection. The studies have focused on a dual aisle, double bubble. But Boeing has been concerned with customer acceptance because not many will have a window.
Structure, weight, volumetric efficiency, all argue a non-traditional fuselage. I'm betting the double bubble makes the grade. Last year, Aviation Week had some pretty good articles. That kind of fuselage also allows the use of existing gate space. Lots of reasons to do it. Not many to stick with the traditional dual aisle.
Based on a carbon structure, you don't need a circular fuselage crossection any more. There are huge structural benefits to vary the crossection. The studies have focused on a dual aisle, double bubble. But Boeing has been concerned with customer acceptance because not many will have a window.
Structure, weight, volumetric efficiency, all argue a non-traditional fuselage. I'm betting the double bubble makes the grade. Last year, Aviation Week had some pretty good articles. That kind of fuselage also allows the use of existing gate space. Lots of reasons to do it. Not many to stick with the traditional dual aisle.
06-30-2018 | 07:22 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 110
Seems no t many have been paying attention to the structural studies Boeing has been doing.
Based on a carbon structure, you don't need a circular fuselage crossection any more. There are huge structural benefits to vary the crossection. The studies have focused on a dual aisle, double bubble. But Boeing has been concerned with customer acceptance because not many will have a window.
Structure, weight, volumetric efficiency, all argue a non-traditional fuselage. I'm betting the double bubble makes the grade. Last year, Aviation Week had some pretty good articles. That kind of fuselage also allows the use of existing gate space. Lots of reasons to do it. Not many to stick with the traditional dual aisle.
Based on a carbon structure, you don't need a circular fuselage crossection any more. There are huge structural benefits to vary the crossection. The studies have focused on a dual aisle, double bubble. But Boeing has been concerned with customer acceptance because not many will have a window.
Structure, weight, volumetric efficiency, all argue a non-traditional fuselage. I'm betting the double bubble makes the grade. Last year, Aviation Week had some pretty good articles. That kind of fuselage also allows the use of existing gate space. Lots of reasons to do it. Not many to stick with the traditional dual aisle.
Don’t believe me? Look up all the fuselage design iterations they did in the lead up to the A3XX which became the 380.
07-01-2018 | 07:08 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 110
The A320 hadn’t even been thought up when SWA went into business. Ryan went 737’s in the early 90’s with 8 used thunder guppies, they were a small operation at the time and couldn’t afford a fleet of brand new airplanes. Swing and a miss.
07-01-2018 | 07:16 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,871
Likes: 189
The A320 hadn’t even been thought up when SWA went into business. Ryan went 737’s in the early 90’s with 8 used thunder guppies, they were a small operation at the time and couldn’t afford a fleet of brand new airplanes. Swing and a miss.
What has every domestic LCC gone with since then? Spirit, JetBlue, Allegiant (now that they’ve purged the mad dogs)....
What has every domestic LCC gone with since then? Spirit, JetBlue, Allegiant (now that they’ve purged the mad dogs)....
07-01-2018 | 08:27 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
That’s why all the LCCs are buying Airbus?
What I’ve heard is the big swath of guppies we got in the 2012-16 timeframe were a consolation prize (at steep discount) for all the 787 delays (that at Znotins, who was let go, was a guppy fanboy). That pretty much set us on course to be a guppy narrow body fleet... that and the NEO is sold out through the end of forever.
What I’ve heard is the big swath of guppies we got in the 2012-16 timeframe were a consolation prize (at steep discount) for all the 787 delays (that at Znotins, who was let go, was a guppy fanboy). That pretty much set us on course to be a guppy narrow body fleet... that and the NEO is sold out through the end of forever.
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