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Old 07-21-2018 | 05:28 AM
  #51  
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Often we forget what really happened and we only remember what feels good or sounds good.

Gordon hired a guy named Jacques Lapointe. I think Jacques, along with allot of the other CAL dinosaurs are with Kellner at their Crystal River financial company.

The CAL concessionary contract that was thrust upon us was brought to us by Gordon. Kellner, being new on the scene got stuck with it, but the building blocks were all put in place by Gordon.

Management scared the pilots with liquidity shortfall and threats of bankruptcy. This poor cash position was a result of Jacques Lapointe being allowed to single handedly (unilaterally and without supervision) put the company in a bad cash position.

Our liabilities in the CPRP and the CARP were too high. And, the funding of those retirements was too low. The investments were all aggressive and reckless. The pilots could only observe, and had no vote on how our retirements were invested. When Jacques made a vegas style bet on our retirement he rolled snake-eyes, then he doubled down and did it again and again.

So, our concessionary contract was brought to you by Gordon. We should have been in great shape to negotiate an industry leading contract, instead, we were left to suckle upon the dried up teet once again.

Management used the scabs to great effect. Once the furloughs started, we pilots lost our voice. We lost 800 votes (MIGS), and that was countered by the SCABS. So, Gordon was in a way, responsible for the SCABS taking over the CAL MEC. Thanks for giving us Jay Panarello, the wacky CLE reps, the wacky GUM reps, and the weird and strange instructor reps. Votes were 5-4 or 7-2 when Stone/Shoe got elected. Unionism and solidarity took a 4 year holiday in the CAL MEC.

Gordon knew how to use the ALPA bureaucracy against us. He used the SCABS to great effect. So, I don't put Gordon on such a huge pedestal. At the end of the day, Gordon got paid well. This is a business, and now it's my turn to be paid well.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 06:02 AM
  #52  
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From: Tom’s Whipping boy.
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Originally Posted by Sunvox
+1000 - Until industry consolidation happened airlines lost more money than they made over their entire history. Since consolidation the industry has been profitable in a way never before believed possible for airlines so much so that Warren Buffet decided to invest in the industry as a whole. UAL just posted a Year over Year increase in profitability and raised their full year earnings guidance in the face of a 40% increase in fuel cost and did so while sticking to a 5% growth strategy AND reaching their highest customer satisfaction rate since the merger
Just remember, a rising tide lifts all boats (even leaky ones). Let's see what the profit sharing check has to say March 2019.

Originally Posted by baseball
Often we forget what really happened and we only remember what feels good or sounds good.

Gordon hired a guy named Jacques Lapointe. I think Jacques, along with allot of the other CAL dinosaurs are with Kellner at their Crystal River financial company.

The CAL concessionary contract that was thrust upon us was brought to us by Gordon. Kellner, being new on the scene got stuck with it, but the building blocks were all put in place by Gordon.

Management scared the pilots with liquidity shortfall and threats of bankruptcy. This poor cash position was a result of Jacques Lapointe being allowed to single handedly (unilaterally and without supervision) put the company in a bad cash position.

Our liabilities in the CPRP and the CARP were too high. And, the funding of those retirements was too low. The investments were all aggressive and reckless. The pilots could only observe, and had no vote on how our retirements were invested.

Gordon knew how to use the ALPA bureaucracy against us. He used the SCABS to great effect. So, I don't put Gordon on such a huge pedestal. At the end of the day, Gordon got paid well. This is a business, and now it's my turn to be paid well.
Not to imply scabs be let off the hook but.....

The pilots did have a say in the investments. The CPRP invested in mortgage backed CDO's. There was an ALPA rep on the investment committee (later became IAH CPO) and not a scab...who was silent on the investment that was later written off.

Also, the R&I chairman (full term striker) that negotiated the pension freeze, did not even to attempt to require a snap back , as well as that stupid "50% 401(k) PCRA conversion, that Kellner fixed 2 weeks after the contract was signed. (Good for him). He wanted to go with the prevailing ALPA national wisdom and move everyone to a DC plan. Which was fine, but left a lot of older pilots holding a half empty bag. (That guy retired with about 80% of his A plan intact.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 06:49 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by BMEP100
Also, the R&I chairman (full term striker) that negotiated the pension freeze, did not even to attempt to require a snap back , as well as that stupid "50% 401(k) PCRA conversion, that Kellner fixed 2 weeks after the contract was signed. (Good for him). He wanted to go with the prevailing ALPA national wisdom and move everyone to a DC plan. Which was fine, but left a lot of older pilots holding a half empty bag. (That guy retired with about 80% of his A plan intact.

For a brief time there was a website showing you your A plan earnings in relation to a PBGC payout if that hypothetically happened. That site was taken down in less than a week when the R&I Chairman, and others, realized that for the vast majority of pilots it was close to a wash and not the "threat" they needed to pass a concessionary contract to save the A plan.

The fact that he was a full term striker doesn't make him any less guilty of the deceit they used to save "their" A plan at any cost.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 08:12 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by JoePatroni
For a brief time there was a website showing you your A plan earnings in relation to a PBGC payout if that hypothetically happened. That site was taken down in less than a week when the R&I Chairman, and others, realized that for the vast majority of pilots it was close to a wash and not the "threat" they needed to pass a concessionary contract to save the A plan.

The fact that he was a full term striker doesn't make him any less guilty of the deceit they used to save "their" A plan at any cost.
They didn't "save" the A plan. They cut some smaller artieries to allow a slow death. It was not a wash for the Chairman and many in his seniority. As for the annuity payments, it didn't become a wash until you got into the ~ 30% first officer seniority. The lump sum grew because of falling interest rates. However, as part of a budget reconciliation in Obama's second term that allowed for another new funding calculation, the plan was so severely underfunded as to be labeled "at risk" by the IRS.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 08:33 AM
  #55  
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The senior pilots coalition lobbied congress, ALPA, the CAL MEC, and everyone under the sun to change the law from 60 to 65.

Then, they had the nerve to screw everyone else to save their lump sum option. We got the full court press from management, ALPA, CAL MEC, CAL MEC reps in position of trust, heck everyone.

Gee lets furlough allot of pilots on the low end, then lets change the law from 60 to 65 on the high end, then lets come up with a secret plan to hide a bunch of already over 60 pilots in the school house, then lets with the stroke of a pen transfer them back out to the line and push more and more pilots lower on the seniority list.

Holy snap your jock strap bat man.

Then, lets kill the industry with RJ's and kill the career progression of a generation of pilots. Then for good measure lets furlough some more pilots so we can pressure the union some more with scope relief and then lets call it "joint venture flying."

I've been ALPA'd enough already. ALPA in the post 911 environment did very little to hold the line. It's a shame the scabs, and the scab-lovers/sympathizers got into power in the CAL MEC. They circled the wagons and defended the things they cared about and stayed in power long enough to see their issues to fruition. By getting non-scabs on board to do their bidding, it gave their issues "perceived legitimacy." That perceived legitimacy was used to great effect in order to sway pilots on the fence. Check Airman, instructors, reps, friends of reps, etc. It was a full court press to sway votes. Management, to include Kellner, personally called pilots to influence votes.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 08:36 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by JoePatroni

The fact that he was a full term striker doesn't make him any less guilty of the deceit they used to save "their" A plan at any cost.
I think that's an important point. The words "full term striker" don't mean much to me anymore. I respect the battle star. But, decisions, and decision-making once in a position of trust are more important than labels, or badges of honor earned a long time ago.

The best predictor of future performance is past performance. It's the biggest reason I respect Capt. Todd Insler. He backs it up!
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Old 07-21-2018 | 08:40 AM
  #57  
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Speaking of Gordon,

You guys catch his act on TV pushing for more RJ's, scope relief, and some other goofy crap on CNBC? Think he was also pushing for lowering the hiring standards...

It's the same song and dance. One trick Pony Gordo. Always looking for that labor cost advantage. He must have some stock options coming due, or his new girlfriend is looking for a higher priced condo in New York City...… Time to cash in again at our expense. Didn't he get a 40 million dollar going away present? Go away already!
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Old 07-21-2018 | 08:56 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by BMEP100
They didn't "save" the A plan. They cut some smaller artieries to allow a slow death. It was not a wash for the Chairman and many in his seniority. As for the annuity payments, it didn't become a wash until you got into the ~ 30% first officer seniority. The lump sum grew because of falling interest rates. However, as part of a budget reconciliation in Obama's second term that allowed for another new funding calculation, the plan was so severely underfunded as to be labeled "at risk" by the IRS.

That was my point, to a MAJORITY of pilots, this was not worth signing a concessionary contract over. To a SMALL minority of pilots, most of whom would spend little time working under the POS they negotiated, they didn't care what the rest of the contract said....only that they preserved as much of their A plan as they could.
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Old 07-21-2018 | 09:04 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by baseball
ALPA in the post 911 environment did very little to hold the line. It's a shame the scabs, and the scab-lovers/sympathizers got into power in the CAL MEC. They circled the wagons and defended the things they cared about and stayed in power long enough to see their issues to fruition. By getting non-scabs on board to do their bidding, it gave their issues "perceived legitimacy." That perceived legitimacy was used to great effect in order to sway pilots on the fence. Check Airman, instructors, reps, friends of reps, etc. It was a full court press to sway votes. Management, to include Kellner, personally called pilots to influence votes.

The first indication was NOT firing every single Friend of Fred "test pilot" before they furloughed one guy after 9/11. Those guys did not do ONE thing that could not have been done by a line pilot EXCEPT willingly go here, there, and everywhere at the drop of a hat (sometimes sitting for days) with zero complaints.


I remember pulling into LAX and two guys in street clothes were waiting in the jetway to ferrry the airplane somewhere. When I asked them who they were, they said they were part of the test pilot department and wouldn't even make eye contact. Total BS as guys were literally being furloughed that week.


Don't even get me started about those over sixty scumbags that wormed their way back on to the seniority list at their original seniority, Leo B was one of the ring leaders.....kharma's a ****h isn't she Leo?
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Old 07-21-2018 | 12:30 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by JoePatroni
That was my point, to a MAJORITY of pilots, this was not worth signing a concessionary contract over. To a SMALL minority of pilots, most of whom would spend little time working under the POS they negotiated, they didn't care what the rest of the contract said....only that they preserved as much of their A plan as they could.
The largest single financial concession was freezing the A plan. The alternative would have been Ch.11 and a bankruptcy contract.

The decision not to have a snap back of the A fund, when the airline returned to profitability was political, not economic. Everyone else in ALPA was moving away from DB plans.
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