nopac6

Sorry to be condescending but you're still getting it wrong. If the PBS award is higher than MPG (like you said) then he's ALREADY flying for free.

Avoiding flying for free BEGINS with PBS bidding. That's the point we're trying to make to Viper. Don't bid a line that's over MPG in a vacation month! Then don't pick up any flying in that vacation month. That's the only way to avoid flying for free. Anything you fly over LCF up to the MPG is flying for free, whether it was awarded via PBS or picked up after you're awarded your line.

Write that sh!t down and look at it every day cause it doesn't seem like it's sinking in. And stop giving people advice until you actually understand it yourself.

pilotgolfer

I understand it completely. You can disagree with my advice, but it answers Viper’s question. In capt Condescending’s world, you would advocate Viper not pick up anything in a vacation month. Like I said earlier...different goals, different bidding strategies.

nopac6

I'm not telling him not to pick up in a vaca month at all. I just want to make sure he understands that he's flying many hours for free if he does. You're the one who keeps telling him that if he "bids" a line that exceeds the MPG he's NOT flying for free (you've said it 3 times now).

I'm trying to get you to stop spreading BS and you're dismissing that as condescension. I'm starting to understand why you're STILL not getting it.

Knotcher

As line holders you could say we all fly for free for the first 70 hours. Lets not get too bogged down with effective hourly rates. Some want to make money than they were awarded during their vacation months even if the hourly rate may be less than ideal. Maybe if we paid 5 hours a day for vacation less people would feel the need to pickup in vacation months.

pilotgolfer

It’s a convoluted system that doesn’t benefit the pilot group. The system of buckets of pay should go adios.

My opinion only.

GoCats67

I don't want to dictate that a pilot cannot do what he/she needs to do IAW the contract, but this issue does have another side that has not been brought up.

In general the company always wants us to fly more per pilot, so much so that they started the LPV plus up program on their own. This practice meant that if you picked up a trip in this situation, the LPV was "plussed up" to the MPG value and then the time picked up would go on top of that. Then, when ALPA wanted to actually codify the practice in the contract, they couldn't reach an agreement. So, the none contractual practice had to stop. If we are continuously picking up extra flying without the LPV plus up, why would the company ever agree to that? They would give up all that extra flying we are doing for free??

So, remember when bidding and picking up in a vacation month that there is also a long term view. If we ever want to have the contract reflect the practice of a pickup in this situation adding on to your MPG value (LPV plus up as it was called) then picking up trips today that have some portion of "working for free" is not helping our long term cause.

clear2takeoff

This gets more confusing the more I read these posts and the union message from last year. It's also pertinent to me this month.

Example numbers:

I didn't bid with any specific strategy in mind, but was awarded a line of 89:54.

This is my vacation month and I get two weeks.

Vacation credit: 45:30
Total block flying awarded in bid: 43:57
Soft time: :27

With this information, can anyone tell me if I'll end up "working for free" if I pick up any trips? If so, how much? I want to avoid any "free flying" for multiple reasons. Someone told me that you can just look at the trip trade $ figures in crew companion, and if the amount goes up when you add a trip to your schedule by the expected amount, you're good... but reading this thread makes me think otherwise.

GoCats67

You already are doing the flying for free. So, whether you pick up or not, the free flying ship has already sailed.

Your MPG should be 2:20 times 17, which is 39:40. So, since you had a very high PBS award, you already are assigned all the free flying. Not sure what your minimum bid could have been for your BES, so can't say how much free flying you are doing, but it is likely substantial! If your Line Production Floor was 73 hours (for instance) then you are doing about 12 hours of flying for free!

But, if you want to pick up additional flying now, that will all be on top of the 89:54, so at least it won't be anymore for free.

clear2takeoff

Ugg... I'm looking for Line Production Floor. Where is that? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

I just use bidnav each month, and it spits me out a line. Out of curiosity, I just looked through my BES award package, and it looks like the majority of folks who had 2 weeks of vacation this month also had high time lines of about 89 hrs... does this mean that we're all "donating our time?"

To clarify, in a month that one has vacation, one should consider getting a min time line in order to avoid any "free flying," and then don't pick up any trips?

This whole thing couldn't be any more confusing. It would seem like it's in our best interest to clearly spell out how to avoid this.

Thanks for your insights.

Larry in TN

A lineholder "flies free" for his first 70 hours every month.

"Flying free" is just how some refer to the flight time (LPV/PTC) from zero up to the month's MPG. All it means is that you don't get any additional money until you've flown more than your MPG.

The only thing unique about a vacation month is that you can often get low-time lines where your awarded LPV/PTC is significantly less than your MPG. That doesn't happen often in non-vacation months.

Still, to be paid extra, you have to fly more than your MPG just like in any other month.