PBS bidding in vacay month
09-17-2018, 12:37 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by Brahma Fear
All I did was express my opinion that the system is a little complicated.
Just because you and others won't make the effort to understand it doesn't mean a "better" system is needed. The complexity of the CBA does build over time but it's a reflection of YOUR union's efforts to improve your pay and benefits.
The company would just LOVE to get rid of the "complexity" because it costs them a fortune. Ignorant (not unintelligent, ignorant) people like you and golfman are the company's wet dream. They'd love to have more guys like you two b!tching about the complexity of the CBA. Their response would be: "You know what? it really is complicated isn't it? How about we just stop guaranteeing people 83 hours of pay in a vacation month? How about we just pay you for the hours you fly, plus your vacation? And the upside is, you'll be able to pick up trips and get paid for every additional hour you fly!! Wouldn't that be awesome?????"
This whole discussion is absolutely mind-boggling.
09-17-2018, 12:51 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by horrido27
Maybe it would help if we knew how others do it ...
Delta? SWA? Jetblue? (just as an example)
What happens when you over fly leg one.. (overs that goes towards our LPV).
Then the rest of the trip is unders (LPV/PTC don't change)
Next trip cancels after you show.. (LPV goes down but our PTC stays the same)
Then you pick up something after not getting used on AV... (our LPV/PTC goes up)
That new trip gets delayed and you end up with Late Pay (Add Pay)
As others have mentioned, the real problem is pilots NOT understanding how our pay works.
Is it confusing... sure. But so it our lifestyle and schedule.
For those of you complaining, what is the solution?
Once you figure out our pay, you learn when and when NOT to pick up flying, and when overs help vs. overs not meaning anything.
Motch
PS-
LPV means Line Pay Value. What the trip should pay as a minimum, if you fly it.
PTC means Protected Time Credit. What your line will pay if YOU do nothing to change it.
MPG means Minimum Pay Guarantee. The min we will get paid if we are available to fly.. 70 for line holders, 73 for reserves.
ADD Pay means extra for certain things, international override, late pay, etc..
PPS-
The 'Key' is to get as much PTC as possible, while getting the low LPV.. plus getting 'ADD Pay'.
Delta? SWA? Jetblue? (just as an example)
What happens when you over fly leg one.. (overs that goes towards our LPV).
Then the rest of the trip is unders (LPV/PTC don't change)
Next trip cancels after you show.. (LPV goes down but our PTC stays the same)
Then you pick up something after not getting used on AV... (our LPV/PTC goes up)
That new trip gets delayed and you end up with Late Pay (Add Pay)
As others have mentioned, the real problem is pilots NOT understanding how our pay works.
Is it confusing... sure. But so it our lifestyle and schedule.
For those of you complaining, what is the solution?
Once you figure out our pay, you learn when and when NOT to pick up flying, and when overs help vs. overs not meaning anything.
Motch
PS-
LPV means Line Pay Value. What the trip should pay as a minimum, if you fly it.
PTC means Protected Time Credit. What your line will pay if YOU do nothing to change it.
MPG means Minimum Pay Guarantee. The min we will get paid if we are available to fly.. 70 for line holders, 73 for reserves.
ADD Pay means extra for certain things, international override, late pay, etc..
PPS-
The 'Key' is to get as much PTC as possible, while getting the low LPV.. plus getting 'ADD Pay'.
It definitely takes effort to understand all the provisions of the CBA but look at what we have now compared to the bankruptcy contract. It represents massive accomplishment by the negotiating committee and translates into significant money for us as UA pilots.
We have really talented, hard-working people laboring on our behalf and they've accomplished SO much. When I hear people complaining that it's too complicated and needs to be changed so that even lazy people can understand it, I lose it.
09-18-2018, 04:37 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by nopac6
No you didn't JUST say it was complicated. You said, "If there is that much confusion surrounding it, a better system is needed."
Just because you and others won't make the effort to understand it doesn't mean a "better" system is needed. The complexity of the CBA does build over time but it's a reflection of YOUR union's efforts to improve your pay and benefits.
The company would just LOVE to get rid of the "complexity" because it costs them a fortune. Ignorant (not unintelligent, ignorant) people like you and golfman are the company's wet dream. They'd love to have more guys like you two b!tching about the complexity of the CBA. Their response would be: "You know what? it really is complicated isn't it? How about we just stop guaranteeing people 83 hours of pay in a vacation month? How about we just pay you for the hours you fly, plus your vacation? And the upside is, you'll be able to pick up trips and get paid for every additional hour you fly!! Wouldn't that be awesome?????"
This whole discussion is absolutely mind-boggling.
Just because you and others won't make the effort to understand it doesn't mean a "better" system is needed. The complexity of the CBA does build over time but it's a reflection of YOUR union's efforts to improve your pay and benefits.
The company would just LOVE to get rid of the "complexity" because it costs them a fortune. Ignorant (not unintelligent, ignorant) people like you and golfman are the company's wet dream. They'd love to have more guys like you two b!tching about the complexity of the CBA. Their response would be: "You know what? it really is complicated isn't it? How about we just stop guaranteeing people 83 hours of pay in a vacation month? How about we just pay you for the hours you fly, plus your vacation? And the upside is, you'll be able to pick up trips and get paid for every additional hour you fly!! Wouldn't that be awesome?????"
This whole discussion is absolutely mind-boggling.
That being said I would really hope we could come up with a system that simplifies it a little while maintaining protections.
03-20-2019, 10:55 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Schempp-Hirth
Posts: 417
Originally Posted by libertyrisk
My vacation month (7 days vaca) ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 54.10
LPV - 54.06
Because my PTC > MPG, if I pick up a turn at 5.0 hr ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 59.10
LPV - 59.06
...and I'm not "working for free", correct?
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 54.10
LPV - 54.06
Because my PTC > MPG, if I pick up a turn at 5.0 hr ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 59.10
LPV - 59.06
...and I'm not "working for free", correct?
If the BES you're in has a big disparity between blended rates and hourly rates the math may not be quite as clean.
03-21-2019, 04:42 AM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: CA
Posts: 320
Originally Posted by libertyrisk
My vacation month (7 days vaca) ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 54.10
LPV - 54.06
Because my PTC > MPG, if I pick up a turn at 5.0 hr ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 59.10
LPV - 59.06
...and I'm not "working for free", correct?
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 54.10
LPV - 54.06
Because my PTC > MPG, if I pick up a turn at 5.0 hr ->
MPG - 53.40
PTC - 59.10
LPV - 59.06
...and I'm not "working for free", correct?
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