graybeard

OK, fair question.
Let me ask you this, when you turn 65 and you have spent (given) 32 years of service to this company; by what rationale is it right and proper that you should not at least be able to keep the seniority you have had for those 32 years. Why should someone lose that? I guess they should be punished somehow for having the audacity to not show up for work next week.
(If priority was by check in time what would you do? Add 12 hours to any retiree when they list?)
Having to pick through those meager 8 passes a year they give to you then becomes another layer of penance to pay for not being "active". I am surprised they don't make you say an act of contrition before issuing the pass.
Another bit of downstream consideration is the actual rationale for even having these ridiculous vacation passes in the first place. While yes they do "help" a retiree, in the respect that MOST of the time it's the only way a retiree and their "spouse" can get on the airplane; [you have to realize how much they are denigrated by the active employees. (the passes). If I was active an not considering the plight of the retiree i would advocate to get rid of them entirely like the majority of active employees would like (from what I understand). And we live in abject fear of that!
But yeh, if we were standing at the gate, you with 32 and me with 30 (even though I was flying those days, nights and years while you were still peeing in your pants), I guess they should strip me of the seniority have always had and let you board first. And as you take your seat, just remember someday when your old and gray and have put in your time, you will have the privilege of hanging out in the gate area with me as the plane leaves.

JoePatroni

Regardless of when you served your time, my thirty two should trump your thirty every time. Period, end of story. I have ALWAYS thought the whole vacation pass program sucked, still do. I have no problem letting someone waive the FC fee a couple times a year but I am dead set against a higher boarding priority.

I am all for a straight years of service, NOT DOH like some retirees want, but in the end I have no illusions of non-revving when I retire. None. I plan on buying tickets and not stressing if I decide to go somewhere.

PS

I’m fifty five years old so shove your condencension.

graybeard

I do want to add when i think of a retiree, I think of a relatively older guy like 60-65 or more who has put in his time, maybe 35, 40 years. Its not even part of my conscious thoughts to include all these early outs we have today. We won't even go into where all that came from. So that's who I'm talking about.
Also just as another FYI (or realization for you new guys); I saw an active employee listed on a flight the other day with a Vacation pass, as a party of "9".
Nine (9)!!!; that should be against the law, unless you have 7 children, all under 26, I guess.
A retiree gets a spouse or SO and 2 "enrolled friends", period.
No kids, no buddies, no parents (ha), that's a total of 4 people who could conceivably be listed together under 1 pass.

graybeard

Let me ask you; do you think 32 years of flying today equals 32 years of flying that began 23 years before you considering the progress of flight ( if you can call it that)?
Maybe I am being condescending; but the pathway to the left seat 23 years before you was a much different world, but I digress.
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion; thanks for that.
It's my opinion, at some point someone deserves to maintain their seniority as some thing they have earned.
I can't wait for you to pay for that ticket after sinking around in the websites looking for some price; only to board the aircraft and see that empty seat up in Business class you could/should have had; priceless.
Lastly I'm happy for you that you have had position at the airline that allows you enough money in retirement to ignore any more economical ways of living. I would venture that the majority of airline workers (and others) are not in your position.
Some of us are condescending and some of us are pretentious.

JoePatroni

I’ve flown with countless guys who spent 80% or more of their careers in the left seat after getting hired in the 60’s and 70’s so that argument holds zero water. United pursued people with private pilot certificates at one time.....how does that figure in your “pathway?”

Incidentally, I would argue 32 years of flying is HARDER today than it used to be back in the days of 68-70 hour lines.

You’ll be “waiting” a while because I don’t plan on flying in coach after I retire, personal choice.

oldmako

When I was hired, surely the company placed some (likely grossly inflated) value on what average pass travel was worth and they probably used that number to whittle away at our overall compensation. I submit that we ought to try and reclaim that compensation in some other form as we move on.

Pass travel is not what it used to be and will surely only get worse. Load factors are off the charts. Last minute Internet ticket deals are becoming more sophisticated. What Crandall brought to Hallmark and AMR has exploded.

Given that todays new hires will likely earn 2-3X what guys my age/hire date earned and, given that the “free travel” canard has augured in and is now just just a smoldering depression, I suggest that we consider Sierra canning pass travel. Just Increase our compensation and then fly FC on vaca. Use the JS to get to work. Wasting heartbeats because you failed to get on at age 35 is one thing. Wasting them at 55 (and while raking it in) is another. Especially while on Vaca.

But I know pilots. We tipped the van driver a buck in 86. Most still tip a buck today.

JoePatroni

Buying a UA fare and not checking loads anymore is worth it almost every time, especially trying to commute on express.

graybeard

I'm from the early 60's and that certainly wasn't my pathway. I didn't start out at UAL and I have heard what you are saying about the private pilot stuff; I never actually saw that any where. I don't think that really happened except maybe in some extreme case for some very abbreviated window.
When I hired on at TWA (as a Flight Test Manuals clerk in 63 as a licensed pilot), a Flight Engineer at PanAm averaged 9 years to get in to the right seat. I know where the water is; mostly in the mid altitudes where i doubt you ever spent much time.
Later (late 60's) many were granted LOA's to fly for (JCA) "Jesus Christ Airlines"; in the Biafran Airlift. Connies in to Africa at night. Just to be clear, I was not a military pilot (these were not military flights). These were the kinds of experience many brought to the airlines.
But none of it will hold your place at the gate, ha.
And you are still an active employee; wow, after you sir.

JoePatroni

You have no idea what I’ve done in my career so keep swinging and missing. You’re asking to get on ahead of someone who has more years of service than you have, that’s not going to happen. Ever. Deal with it.

A guy who flew the space shuttle doesn’t get preference either.

graybeard

OK, Have a safe flight.