Vernon Demerest

Exactly. Nobody here is saying that having a 4 year degree makes you a better pilot. As stated above, there are plenty of avenues in which to display your flying skills absent the degree. Corporate, LCC and American via one of the Eagle carriers are all viable options. United will always make a few exceptions here and there but don’t plan on getting that call without a four year degree, period.

Duckdude

Maybe.

I graduated with a 4 year degree in 1998. My first 15 years as a professional pilot, I averaged just over $30,000/year. That included roughly 9 months as a CFI, 9 years as a regional pilot, 1 year as a major pilot, and 4 years 3 months on furlough from said major starting and running my own FBO.

The last 6+ years have been much better.

Just keep in mind the last few years probably don’t represent what a full career will be like.

Regardless, I agree you need the degree if you want the good flying jobs.

Itsajob

You entered the aviation market right before the lost decade started. It was a rough ride for everyone, but for someone like yourself, it was worse than those who rode it out at a legacy. You’re right about the degree though. If someone doesn’t want to get a degree, they can start over at an AA regional carrier with flow, go to one of the ACMI outfits, a LCC, or corporate. An easier option would be to just get the degree rather than complaining about being stuck in the regionals while “less qualified” people get hired at well paying jobs. The rules have been in place for years. They decided not to play by those rules and shouldn’t complain about not getting an interview.

ReadyRsv

I'm thinking Warrant Officer with so many ribbons and medals on his chest he has a hard time standing up straight. I sincerely hope we arent hiring anyone without a degree that isn't a one in a million type.

Even then, most of the guys I know who spent time as enlisted guys in the military did online college on ships or airbases etc. Its cheap and easy to get a crappy degree online these days, especially if you have significant aviation experience.

PhantomHawk

This is a PERFECT example of somebody having a standard set in their head, yet freely admitting that it’s meaningless.

I don’t disagree with your second point, but the first one is lost on me. If a person is intelligent, savvy, and has the correct personality for this job......why should we CARE what their formal education consists of? Especially since you said it yourself......it’s easy to “check the box” these days.

Seems most people are big fans of the “I did it, you should have to do it” mentality. I don’t really care, as long as the other standards I mentioned are held.

Disclaimer - the rules of the game are pretty clear. If you’re trying to get hired here, get yourself a degree. I hustled and made sure to finish before my interview. The HR representative, who happened to run the program at the time, complimented me on that effort. It may not be important to YOU, but it’s important to THEM. Until the rules change, get it done.

Itsajob

I’m sure there that the “I did it, so you should too” mentality
plays a pretty big part, however the biggest thing that you said is how important it is to THEM. The people in HR aren’t pilots and in their world, a degree on the wall is just as important as a laundry list of type ratings is to us. The pilots involved in recruiting and hiring think that its important too though. They feel that having a formal education contributes to, and provides insight to the “whole person”. I flew with one recently who went as far as to call a lack of a degree willful noncompliance. An applicant who deliberately avoids meeting the long established requirements, regardless if we feel that they are meaningless, is not the type of person that they want to invest in.

Nice job finishing your degree, and welcome to the company. Had you not, you’d probably still be at a regional. I wish more people would follow your example.

Blackhawk

I flew with many great FOs who, on nice overnights, spent their spare time working on an online degree. I’d be out drinking, they would be working. I have great admiration for their discipline and determination.
Yeah, given a choice between one of these FOs and someone who didn’t show the discipline and determination I’ll take the former. Sorry.

PhantomHawk

Inspiring story......but as stated before, the online degree is exceedingly easy to attain. Most of those guys, myself included, should have finished it when they were supposed to. I also know PLENTY of lazy people who have their degree, and contribute almost nothing to the world around them. I graduated within a few hundredths of a perfect GPA. Business degree. I cherish the darn thing because I KNOW it helped get my foot in the door. Aside from that, I’m the same person I was before I finished, and the degree means nearly nothing to me outside of helping to get this job. I’m not “proud” of doing so well....because it wasn’t that hard to do it. If anything, I’m still a little ashamed that it took me this long. But the accomplishment did NOT change my worth as an employee. I’m the same dude as I would have been before I got the degree. An individual’s credentials don’t impress me, their character and critical thinking skills do.

Having said all that.....finish the degree. I invested thousands of dollars and many days of my time, and in exchange I got the chance to land the best job in the world....as far as I’m concerned.

Pretty worthwhile investment.

Just to draw a comparison, Blackhawk.....some would say that a person who languished at the regionals for about 20 years wasn’t trying hard enough...didn’t show the proper determination, etc.
I know for a fact you would strongly disagree with that statement, claiming circumstance prevented it, that there was a bigger picture to consider......

See where I’m going with that one?

Blackhawk

Yes. I do see where you are going. There is a difference between those who spent 20 years at a regional ****ing and moaning about how their life is unfair, and those who spent 20 years at a regional but tried to make the best of it and improved their lot. The degree itself may not mean much, but there is a difference between the person who put in the time and effort to get that degree and the person who chose not to do so. It’s not the credentials that impress me, it’s the effort put in by some to get those credentials. As I wrote, many of those FOs I flew with sacrificed time to get those degrees. Personally, I’m more impressed by their online degrees earned while raising gear, slogging through crap and caring for kids than I am with my high brand degree from a prestigious university earned when I was a self centered punk.
If you can’t see that I can’t open your eyes.

PhantomHawk

Everyone’s story is different, and others’ perception of that story is meaningless.....is what my point was. We both got the job, and both of us are WAY too new to think our opinion of who else should get the job really matters, anyways. But hey....since you have that prestigious degree, you also should have realized that what I was saying is that 20 years spent at a regional is a lot like somebody being 35 years old and haven’t finished their degree. You might think they don’t have discipline, or desire, or commitment. They might just have a LOT that kept it from happening. Sorta like the 24-year old who got hired at a Legacy after 6 months at a regional can be compared to the 22-year old college graduate. Sometimes timing and good fortune are the only things separating people.

Since I know how reluctant you are to view things from another perspective, I will respectfully agree to disagree. I’m just happy to be here, and waaaay too much time on my hands at the crash pad this week.