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-   -   United AVIATE (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/124485-united-aviate.html)

Floyd 10-06-2019 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by CLRtoPush (Post 2899315)
If United can’t relax scope they’ll just be bankrupt quicker then the timeline they’re currently on. All legacies need they’re regional feed or they wouldn’t have them.

Sounds like RJ Scott talking points, albeit with a 3rd grade edumacation.

CLRtoPush 10-06-2019 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by Floyd (Post 2899413)
Sounds like RJ Scott talking points, albeit with a 3rd grade edumacation.

United wants bigger, heavier so called regional aircraft not flown by your pilot group. This is a big part of the legacy business model, it’s what your union spends the most money fighting against. United knows they lose money if you were to fly these frames, and your union spends money fighting them from allowing these frames to be flown at a profit. ALPA is helping you vote yourself out of a job, just as the automakers have. To much overhead. The whipsaw must continue if you want to keep the pay checks you have.

oldmako 10-06-2019 06:34 PM

They will not lose money if we fly them. They will earn LESS if we fly them than if you fly them, but they won't lose money. Ultimately that's their problem, not ours. They sell the seats at the price they set. Today's load factors give them astonishing pricing power. But one thing is for sure - we will certainly lose jobs if you fly them. Management has a proven track record for that. They don't like widgets. And when the economy hiccups, we'll likely lose even more.

Why would anyone expect us to feel any other way about scope? We lost the first scope battle. We're determined not to lose the next.

Half wing 10-06-2019 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by CLRtoPush (Post 2899426)
United wants bigger, heavier so called regional aircraft not flown by your pilot group. This is a big part of the legacy business model, it’s what your union spends the most money fighting against. United knows they lose money if you were to fly these frames, and your union spends money fighting them from allowing these frames to be flown at a profit. ALPA is helping you vote yourself out of a job, just as the automakers have. To much overhead. The whipsaw must continue if you want to keep the pay checks you have.

Nope, ALPA is helping protect our jobs. You are right however that the whipsaw will continue at Express. If we relax scope your time at express will be even longer. We tighten it and you come over here sooner. There will probably always be express but the smaller we can make it, the better for everyone.

C11DCA 10-06-2019 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 2899442)
They will not lose money if we fly them. They will earn LESS if we fly them than if you fly them, but they won't lose money. Ultimately that's their problem, not ours. They sell the seats at the price they set. Today's load factors give them astonishing pricing power. But one thing is for sure - we will certainly lose jobs if you fly them. Management has a proven track record for that. They don't like widgets. And when the economy hiccups, we'll likely lose even more.

Why would anyone expect us to feel any other way about scope? We lost the first scope battle. We're determined not to lose the next.

Im not sure the above highlighted is true. If mainline flies them, there no longer is any seat restriction (could make it a 80-82 seater vs 76), nor mileage or hub restrictions, or even the number of airframes flown. All that adds up to more revenue and potential profit.

Dave Fitzgerald 10-07-2019 06:38 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 2899442)
They will not lose money if we fly them. They will earn LESS if we fly them than if you fly them, but they won't lose money.

Mako, I'm not even sure about that. If you take into account the quality of service, far fewer cancellations, and more motivated employees, I'm not so sure. Having one set of sims, training, and everyone on the same seniority list could improve profitability.

How much does it cost us in good will, and up front costs when an RJ cancels and UAL has to put everyone up in a hotel? Return customers? Priceless.

oldmako 10-07-2019 07:12 AM

I agree 100%. The company has the financial wherewithal to operate the next-gen (E190 and UP....hell even the E175) if they choose to. Yes, it would cost a bit more considering our pay scales and BC fund, contact goodies etc but I have to assume that it wouldn't break the bank by any stretch. And when you include the items you mention, the gap must certainly narrow, and perhaps considerably. At some point, they need to consider the value of the brand and the service received by the pax. Brand loyalty is paramount and companies like Apple have proven that customers are willing to pay for top-shelf goodies and service. Not everyone drives a Yugo.

airlinepilot50 10-07-2019 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 2899622)
I agree 100%. The company has the financial wherewithal to operate the next-gen (E190 and UP....hell even the E175) if they choose to. Yes, it would cost a bit more considering our pay scales and BC fund, contact goodies etc but I have to assume that it wouldn't break the bank by any stretch. And when you include the items you mention, the gap must certainly narrow, and perhaps considerably. At some point, they need to consider the value of the brand and the service received by the pax. Brand loyalty is paramount and companies like Apple have proven that customers are willing to pay for top-shelf goodies and service. Not everyone drives a Yugo.

Are you somehow implying that United is a brand and service customers love? Man, some of you better familiarize yourself with the customer service rankings! You are in last place and have always been! American beats you by three places, ha ha! What top-shelf goodies and service are you offering? Alaska is number one in customer service and they have no Scope. Your pilot group is forcing United passengers to fly on old smelly 50 seat airplanes. Keep holding the line and see what happens. You had a chance to create a flow through with your UAL regional counterparts and customers would immediately have noticed a big change in customer service with less cancelations and delays. You have a problem:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...529-story.html

CLRtoPush 10-07-2019 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 2899622)
I agree 100%. The company has the financial wherewithal to operate the next-gen (E190 and UP....hell even the E175) if they choose to. Yes, it would cost a bit more considering our pay scales and BC fund, contact goodies etc but I have to assume that it wouldn't break the bank by any stretch. And when you include the items you mention, the gap must certainly narrow, and perhaps considerably. At some point, they need to consider the value of the brand and the service received by the pax. Brand loyalty is paramount and companies like Apple have proven that customers are willing to pay for top-shelf goodies and service. Not everyone drives a Yugo.

Dang! How come your just a pilot still? Shouldn’t you be at the top making decisions by now? They have considered your non sense and the conclusions differ to yours. Multiple seniority lists will always trump whatever preconceived savings you think might be gained by improved customer service/loyalty. If they could just legally sell tickets and farm out the flight ops they would.

Itsajob 10-07-2019 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by airlinepilot50 (Post 2899630)
Are you somehow implying that United is a brand and service customers love? Man, some of you better familiarize yourself with the customer service rankings! You are in last place and have always been! American beats you by three places, ha ha! What top-shelf goodies and service are you offering? Alaska is number one in customer service and they have no Scope. Your pilot group is forcing United passengers to fly on old smelly 50 seat airplanes. Keep holding the line and see what happens. You had a chance to create a flow through with your UAL regional counterparts and customers would immediately have noticed a big change in customer service with less cancelations and delays. You have a problem:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...529-story.html

For a company that you despise so much, you seem to really have your panties in a bunch because you’re not working here. You obviously aren’t going to work for United, so why don’t you go to a company with AA flow and live a blissful life? Why the hate? How many times did you bust some part of the interview process? If you think that this program is so bad, what do you think that the program should look like?


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