Furloughs and paycuts coming
03-12-2020, 12:24 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Entertaining posts from everyone, really 
Serious question, though, preferably answered by someone with experience with a furlough for those who's not that seasoned in the industry. What elements of furloughing high cost staff, aka pilots, really make it begin to be costlier than just reducing line values/etc. Yes it's understandable that the training events that it triggers reduce staff even further but I'm looking for someone with insight to give an example of what we might based on a previous furlough experience. How many Captains shifted back to the right seat, moved equipment, just retired, etc, from what you recall!?
Serious question, though, preferably answered by someone with experience with a furlough for those who's not that seasoned in the industry. What elements of furloughing high cost staff, aka pilots, really make it begin to be costlier than just reducing line values/etc. Yes it's understandable that the training events that it triggers reduce staff even further but I'm looking for someone with insight to give an example of what we might based on a previous furlough experience. How many Captains shifted back to the right seat, moved equipment, just retired, etc, from what you recall!?Why not read the MEC update a few days ago.........
Has anything you need to know.
If you want deeper info, I recommend a call to your Reps and a referral to the SSC SMEs.
personally I grow tired of pilots not knowing their contract.
As a PDR Hotline dude, I’m growing tired of pilots that claim to be experts in all things but can’t read a document.
Call your Reps.
Lee
03-12-2020, 02:31 PM
#52
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Entertaining posts from everyone, really Serious question, though, preferably answered by someone with experience with a furlough for those who's not that seasoned in the industry. What elements of furloughing high cost staff, aka pilots, really make it begin to be costlier than just reducing line values/etc. Yes it's understandable that the training events that it triggers reduce staff even further but I'm looking for someone with insight to give an example of what we might based on a previous furlough experience. How many Captains shifted back to the right seat, moved equipment, just retired, etc, from what you recall!?
Serious question, though, preferably answered by someone with experience with a furlough for those who's not that seasoned in the industry. What elements of furloughing high cost staff, aka pilots, really make it begin to be costlier than just reducing line values/etc. Yes it's understandable that the training events that it triggers reduce staff even further but I'm looking for someone with insight to give an example of what we might based on a previous furlough experience. How many Captains shifted back to the right seat, moved equipment, just retired, etc, from what you recall!?I was working on my commercial when the 73 Saudi Oil embargo happened. Then in 78 the next oil shock occurred and I had my first furlough in 79. Moved across country for another flying job. Controller strike in 81..furloughed again. Hired for a contract in Algeria, class cancelled a week before start. Contract cancelled. Found a freight job, furloughed after 6months. Took contract flying jobs for a couple years. Rehired at former airline in 82.
In every case there was absolutely nothing I could do about the furlough, and nothing I could decipher about the company’s financial condition would add one iota to what the CPA’s had figured out.
If you are a union member, they, have it covered for you. That’s what you pay them for. So..fugettabout it. You’ll sleep better.
Just enjoy your family, friends, go fishing or take up a side gig.( I did that for a while while on furlough.).
03-12-2020, 11:44 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 658
Anyone who doesn’t think that furloughs in the near future are a very strong possibility has their head stuck in the sand. Regardless of how much cash your airline is sitting on, they won’t be burning anymore than they forced to keep the wheels on the wagon. The drops in future booking has been MASSIVE across all airlines. The government has already suspended the “use it or lose it” rule for airport slots to allow airlines to reduce flights without losing market share. Nobody is going to be spared, American Delta United Alaska Southwest JetBlue Frontier Spirit, everyone is going to feel some pain from this event. It’s like 9/11 and the 2008/2009 recession combined. People are convinced their safety is at risk by traveling (same as 9/11) and the inevitable 2020 recession will cost a lot of people their jobs, will massively reduce spending, and ultimately lead to significantly reduced bookings for at least the remainder of the year (similar to the last recession but more extreme) and they will be slow to recover. Merger/consolidations and shutdowns are also a real possibility. Buckle up and hold onto your cash this event will probably set a new benchmark for pain delivered to our industry.
I’m not making implications, such as selling the cow to save the farm. I’m just saying good luck to you guys, many of you who I consider great friends, good luck to us all.
I’m not making implications, such as selling the cow to save the farm. I’m just saying good luck to you guys, many of you who I consider great friends, good luck to us all.
Last edited by DrJekyll MrHyde; 03-12-2020 at 11:59 PM.
03-13-2020, 03:20 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,159
Are furloughs now possible, yes. I sincerely hope this is more short lived so it doesn't come to that.
Offer up concessions without anyone asking for it? Pollyanna. I'm still working on getting concessions back from bankruptcy last time.
Now, we must be realistic. We will all most likely take a pay cut in the form of no open flying available to pickup. If pilots do go on furlough, limits on monthly flying will be lower per the contract.
Also, pay cuts mainly due to lower line values. Let's all be smart with our money. Offer up other pay cuts? Simply no.
Offer up concessions without anyone asking for it? Pollyanna. I'm still working on getting concessions back from bankruptcy last time.
Now, we must be realistic. We will all most likely take a pay cut in the form of no open flying available to pickup. If pilots do go on furlough, limits on monthly flying will be lower per the contract.
Also, pay cuts mainly due to lower line values. Let's all be smart with our money. Offer up other pay cuts? Simply no.
03-13-2020, 03:54 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
I retire early next year and will say bye to all of this and start a new airline free part of life, which will not include pilot forums.
Time to enjoy your family, friends, fishing and the side gig.
03-13-2020, 05:40 AM
#57
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
If I read the dates correctly you should have already retired by now and be somewhere close the 68 year old mark. Why are you still hanging around and posting on this forum?
I retire early next year and will say bye to all of this and start a new airline free part of life, which will not include pilot forums.
Time to enjoy your family, friends, fishing and the side gig.
I retire early next year and will say bye to all of this and start a new airline free part of life, which will not include pilot forums.
Time to enjoy your family, friends, fishing and the side gig.
Hope your retirement works out as planned. With all the BS that has crept into the job, I still enjoy it enough to stay till the last month (unless Oscar throw me a really nice enticement to leave early).
03-13-2020, 07:20 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Anyone who doesn’t think that furloughs in the near future are a very strong possibility has their head stuck in the sand. Regardless of how much cash your airline is sitting on, they won’t be burning anymore than they forced to keep the wheels on the wagon. The drops in future booking has been MASSIVE across all airlines. The government has already suspended the “use it or lose it” rule for airport slots to allow airlines to reduce flights without losing market share. Nobody is going to be spared, American Delta United Alaska Southwest JetBlue Frontier Spirit, everyone is going to feel some pain from this event. It’s like 9/11 and the 2008/2009 recession combined. People are convinced their safety is at risk by traveling (same as 9/11) and the inevitable 2020 recession will cost a lot of people their jobs, will massively reduce spending, and ultimately lead to significantly reduced bookings for at least the remainder of the year (similar to the last recession but more extreme) and they will be slow to recover. Merger/consolidations and shutdowns are also a real possibility. Buckle up and hold onto your cash this event will probably set a new benchmark for pain delivered to our industry.
I’m not making implications, such as selling the cow to save the farm. I’m just saying good luck to you guys, many of you who I consider great friends, good luck to us all.
I’m not making implications, such as selling the cow to save the farm. I’m just saying good luck to you guys, many of you who I consider great friends, good luck to us all.
03-13-2020, 11:03 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,953
Are furloughs possible? Yes they are! But not in the near future. We have a great cash position relative to the rest of the Industry. Furloughing pilots is prohibitively expensive, as it should be. That would lower our cash position significantly. Add to that, this thing probably won’t last 2-3 years. Everyone needs to stop this Chicken Little attitude and take a breath!!!
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