Furloughs and paycuts coming
03-13-2020, 12:18 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Guppy.
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by DashTrash
Are furloughs possible? Yes they are! But not in the near future. We have a great cash position relative to the rest of the Industry. Furloughing pilots is prohibitively expensive, as it should be. That would lower our cash position significantly. Add to that, this thing probably won’t last 2-3 years. Everyone needs to stop this Chicken Little attitude and take a breath!!!
I don't see how we won't furlough. And so will "perfect" Delta. Long term it might cost more but we're dealing with a very uncertain time frame in survival mode.
I sure hope you're right and I'm wrong. I just don't see how.
03-13-2020, 02:18 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 195
I’m hopeful SK and Oscar stick to their 3-mo plan expecting 70/70/60 demand drop with cuts to capital expenses. They stated the company has enough liquidity to handle that timeframe, after which they will need to see upward recover of bookings and if not they will not really see this as short term problem and adjustments made and more actions will need to be taken (insert increases likelihood of the F word)
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
SK sheepishly grinned at the Townhall when asked about opportunities for United after this crisis (thinking mergers, takeover, route expansion etc...). Norwegian is cutting half their employees, aside from disliking their leadership, lots of hard working people just lost jobs. No idea how long they can hang on as a company. If confidence is restored in a reasonable time and this is in fact a largely medical crisis and the economy is otherwise healthy aside from this punch in the gut, we may have a real chance to expand WB flying by next year depending how badly foreign carriers weather the storm.
it would seem unlikely to me that SK is not aware of this potential opportunity. To furlough, aside from being costly, would likely mean missing this opportunity. So long as SK thinks this is a 2020 issue and he can continue his plans to grow United again starting into 2021 I feel pretty confident he’ll absorb the shorter term loses to be postured for a potential long term gain. Opinions vary, no crystal ball, and maybe a little glass of wishful thinking, hoping not! Good luck to us all.
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
SK sheepishly grinned at the Townhall when asked about opportunities for United after this crisis (thinking mergers, takeover, route expansion etc...). Norwegian is cutting half their employees, aside from disliking their leadership, lots of hard working people just lost jobs. No idea how long they can hang on as a company. If confidence is restored in a reasonable time and this is in fact a largely medical crisis and the economy is otherwise healthy aside from this punch in the gut, we may have a real chance to expand WB flying by next year depending how badly foreign carriers weather the storm.
it would seem unlikely to me that SK is not aware of this potential opportunity. To furlough, aside from being costly, would likely mean missing this opportunity. So long as SK thinks this is a 2020 issue and he can continue his plans to grow United again starting into 2021 I feel pretty confident he’ll absorb the shorter term loses to be postured for a potential long term gain. Opinions vary, no crystal ball, and maybe a little glass of wishful thinking, hoping not! Good luck to us all.
03-13-2020, 06:00 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 149
If we domestic shutdown- guaranteed furloughs and Armageddon for the industry. Think......CHERNOBYL.
If we vaccine- in next 2-3 weeks: okay recovery.
With all cancelations of schools, pro sports, Europe, Asia, and whatever else. We are right now not looking good. As a realist it is what it is.
As I enjoy my second filthy dirty martini of the evening, which I encourage all of you to craft and enjoy yourselves, I says to myself hey, furlough before cutting wages and benefits. Yes, I’ll be furloughed as a new hire. Life is hard. So be it. It’s also great no matter what happens. I’m down with the Wuhan. It’s likely payback. Whatevs.
If we vaccine- in next 2-3 weeks: okay recovery.
With all cancelations of schools, pro sports, Europe, Asia, and whatever else. We are right now not looking good. As a realist it is what it is.
As I enjoy my second filthy dirty martini of the evening, which I encourage all of you to craft and enjoy yourselves, I says to myself hey, furlough before cutting wages and benefits. Yes, I’ll be furloughed as a new hire. Life is hard. So be it. It’s also great no matter what happens. I’m down with the Wuhan. It’s likely payback. Whatevs.
03-13-2020, 06:05 PM
#65
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by Sixty N Two
I’m hopeful SK and Oscar stick to their 3-mo plan expecting 70/70/60 demand drop with cuts to capital expenses. They stated the company has enough liquidity to handle that timeframe, after which they will need to see upward recover of bookings and if not they will not really see this as short term problem and adjustments made and more actions will need to be taken (insert increases likelihood of the F word)
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
i .
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
i .
03-13-2020, 06:53 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,119
Originally Posted by massgflight
As I enjoy my second filthy dirty martini of the evening, which I encourage all of you to craft and enjoy yourselves...
03-13-2020, 09:49 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by Sixty N Two
I’m hopeful SK and Oscar stick to their 3-mo plan expecting 70/70/60 demand drop with cuts to capital expenses. They stated the company has enough liquidity to handle that timeframe, after which they will need to see upward recover of bookings and if not they will not really see this as short term problem and adjustments made and more actions will need to be taken (insert increases likelihood of the F word)
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
SK sheepishly grinned at the Townhall when asked about opportunities for United after this crisis (thinking mergers, takeover, route expansion etc...). Norwegian is cutting half their employees, aside from disliking their leadership, lots of hard working people just lost jobs. No idea how long they can hang on as a company. If confidence is restored in a reasonable time and this is in fact a largely medical crisis and the economy is otherwise healthy aside from this punch in the gut, we may have a real chance to expand WB flying by next year depending how badly foreign carriers weather the storm.
it would seem unlikely to me that SK is not aware of this potential opportunity. To furlough, aside from being costly, would likely mean missing this opportunity. So long as SK thinks this is a 2020 issue and he can continue his plans to grow United again starting into 2021 I feel pretty confident he’ll absorb the shorter term loses to be postured for a potential long term gain. Opinions vary, no crystal ball, and maybe a little glass of wishful thinking, hoping not! Good luck to us all.
It’s the airlines and anything can change in the blink of an eye. President stated today the Fed Govt will help airlines if required.
SK sheepishly grinned at the Townhall when asked about opportunities for United after this crisis (thinking mergers, takeover, route expansion etc...). Norwegian is cutting half their employees, aside from disliking their leadership, lots of hard working people just lost jobs. No idea how long they can hang on as a company. If confidence is restored in a reasonable time and this is in fact a largely medical crisis and the economy is otherwise healthy aside from this punch in the gut, we may have a real chance to expand WB flying by next year depending how badly foreign carriers weather the storm.
it would seem unlikely to me that SK is not aware of this potential opportunity. To furlough, aside from being costly, would likely mean missing this opportunity. So long as SK thinks this is a 2020 issue and he can continue his plans to grow United again starting into 2021 I feel pretty confident he’ll absorb the shorter term loses to be postured for a potential long term gain. Opinions vary, no crystal ball, and maybe a little glass of wishful thinking, hoping not! Good luck to us all.
03-13-2020, 11:34 PM
#69
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Position: B787 CA
Posts: 20
I was born and raised under an ALPA contract household. My Daddy would have shot me before he would have let me scab. After sitting out the strikes I got hired at 28 with over 10,000 hours. I have been here over 33 years and got less than 3 years to go until retirement. At the first sign of a Furlough, I guarantee this Pilot Group that I will retire allowing for 1 less FNG to have to hit the streets. I was a CAL pilot and still have an A-fund to live on. Yes, it is all about "passing it on."
Today, we are looking at something that is worst to our careers than 911 and 2008 together. United always did it wrong when there was a downturn in the economy. They always think bigger is better. Well, that ended up as the Worlds largest Bankruptcy, and then the most over-leveraged highest loss Airline in the industry prior to the merger. It looks to me we are going to make the same mistakes for a third time.
The most expensive and unrealiable seats we have are those in the 772. Those airplanes were designed for 20 years of service and OpsSpec D-485 (Aging Aircraft Fleet Inspection Program) makes them beyond their Financial Viable Life. The most expensive crews operate these aircraft. When these full aircraft with highly discounted seats cancel, the hotel costs for those passengers are huge and unrecoverable.
Retire the Fleet and the Geriatric FA's that staff them now. The Company and the Union will be better off without them.
The WB pilots are going to take a hit as they go to NB's. Chances are we are all going to take a $$$ hit anyway. DENTK is a fixed expense. The Instructors, lights, and heat expenses go on whether they're busy or not.
Blah Blah Blah, Sorry, I read the Whatcha Drinking Thread before writing this.
Fly Safe
Today, we are looking at something that is worst to our careers than 911 and 2008 together. United always did it wrong when there was a downturn in the economy. They always think bigger is better. Well, that ended up as the Worlds largest Bankruptcy, and then the most over-leveraged highest loss Airline in the industry prior to the merger. It looks to me we are going to make the same mistakes for a third time.
The most expensive and unrealiable seats we have are those in the 772. Those airplanes were designed for 20 years of service and OpsSpec D-485 (Aging Aircraft Fleet Inspection Program) makes them beyond their Financial Viable Life. The most expensive crews operate these aircraft. When these full aircraft with highly discounted seats cancel, the hotel costs for those passengers are huge and unrecoverable.
Retire the Fleet and the Geriatric FA's that staff them now. The Company and the Union will be better off without them.
The WB pilots are going to take a hit as they go to NB's. Chances are we are all going to take a $$$ hit anyway. DENTK is a fixed expense. The Instructors, lights, and heat expenses go on whether they're busy or not.
Blah Blah Blah, Sorry, I read the Whatcha Drinking Thread before writing this.
Fly Safe
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