Match, a lot of your questions have already been answered.

You are erroneously conflating the min/max numbers with a 'long term staffing plan. The max numbers may change significantly on the next displacement bid. Even in a normal year I don't think network planning would have a solid manpower target this far out.

Lee and SP-
Where I'm confused is this-
We basically have about 2500 pilots hired after the Special Date of 23 Jan 2016. Of which, many were on the 756 and some were Captains on Narrowbodies and FO's on the Widebodies.
Based on the results of DB20-07D, isn't it (basically) true that almost all those pilots have now been displaced into the A320/B737 FO seats? And those few who might not have been, will be on the next DB.
As such, wouldn't those pilots need to go to training first UNLESS they get an intent to furlough? (or are on an E-SRL?)
But if the furlough notice doesn't happen till 1 July (Happy 4th of July present).. what happens to those in training? What happens to those who have a training class scheduled for July? (Obviously, those with a July date would not be required to attend..but now who takes that class date?

Just seems that between this over reaching displacement bid, the E-SRL's, the training dates and now the possible Intent to Furlough dates.. nothing matches up. It's like a Catch22!

So strange. And then I read something about displacement rights and grandfather clauses and 120 days.. which didn't help the headache! lol. Guess we'll have to tackle that beast in the fall.

Always
Motch

PS) Hope you 2 have an enjoyable weekend. This weekend is always a weird one for me.

Guess we will agree to disagree.
I have a bunch the old Vacancy Bids and the Min/Max's are a pretty good target of planned flying for the future.
While I get that a Displacement Bid Min/Max is basically going the opposite way, there still has to be a rhyme or reason for their numbers.
Are they planing 5 LHR flights in March or are they planing 7? Are we going to be flying into MCO? RSW? MIA or not?
The frustrating thing is that it seems the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
We are parking (Short term and Long term) the 757 fleet, the 767 fleet.. not flying in May.
A few days later.. CCS msg that there will be flying in May (LOL).
Almost every day I get Open Pairing Alerts for EWR756 flying!

Keep in mind, just last week on an investor call a comment was made about removing 6 seats out of the 76 RJ's to comply with scope/furlough provisions. Yet then on another interview we hear about United putting bigger aircraft on routes to better social distance AND that we are (for the time being) aiming for a load of 70%.
So which is it.. we are taking a small aircraft and making it more dense and uneconomical or we are up gauging our routes?

IF the Min/Max's are useless, then why publish them?
If they are being published to abide by the contract, shouldn't they have useful information in them?

I do agree with your statement about the next DB. I expect the number of displacement will be less than the current 4148. Hell, 36 pilots are suppose to retire in July. There is also word that a small number of LCAL pilots have also put their paperwork in to retire due to the Continental frozen A Plan.
I'm hoping to see a displacement number somewhere in the mid to high 3000's. Hopefully.

Always
Motch

Need to? No.

Motch,

We won’t know the final answer until PC shows it to us all.

I think the furlough announcement will come out before the next displacement. My gut feeling. Could be wrong.

While he didn’t exactly get his perfect outcome via this displacement, he did push pilots into the categories where the majority of furloughed pilots will come from. That ensures those categories will be manned to meet the true targets we really haven’t seen yet.

There is no magic in first pushing a pilot to NB FO before furlough. Those pilots can be furloughed from any position, and with the exception of voluntary furloughs, will be recalled to any previously unfilled vacancy their seniority can hold. Not to the position the were furloughed from.

He also took the opportunity to close categories to match whatever “perfect” picture that he and marketing came up with based on their current revenue forecasts.

You can go around and around with the UPA and all the hypothetical outcomes right now. You’ll go crazy trying to do so.

Take a deep breath.....

Be well!

Lee

You received some good replies, so I won't pile on. I will however politely suggest that you have quite a bit more to learn about the airline bidness as it applies to labor.

You could start here...

https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-...0350434&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Splash-Colors...0350502&sr=8-1

And On Wooden Wings, or From Wooden Wings, I can't recall.

It's been posted a thousand times in the last 40 years, we could work for FREE, and they'd still furlough pilots at will and go out of business. The question becomes, do you want to do what you do now, for LESS until the lock they doors? I know I don't. It won't change the date.

They live like pigs and torch us for every cent from one contract to the next. Then when times are bad they expect the peons to refloat the ship just long enough for them to invent a new round of bonuses. And this even when they are the ones who rammed us up onto the shoal. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

They need a loan? Fine, let's talk about the repayment schedule and terms. Absent that, pound sand.

I guess that's where again I'm confused.
If you have a 2008 B756 FO who is now displaced to A320 FO and
You have a 2013 B737 Capt who is now displaced to A320 FO and
You have a 2016 B787 FO who is now displaced to A320 FO and lastly,
You have a 2017 A320 Capt who is now displaced to A320 FO...

I would assume AND EXPECT that the 2017 A320 Capt have to go through training first. Followed by the 2016 hire, etc.
Yes, I'm aware of the Pay Protection but there is also something more than pay at stake. Quality of Life.
Pretty sure that 2008 hire has earned the right to be home a lot during the summer... same with the 2013 hire vs the 2017 hire.
Just as bad is if they send the 2008 756 FO to training yet there are 2010-2019 756 FO's who do NOT go to training.

Guess we will see what the training schedule looks like at the end of this week?
But..
One thing that hit me and again, I had to laugh.. and not a good laugh-
"However, we will deviate from inverse seniority order if there is a business reason for doing so. Examples include:
- a pilot is NQ on his old equipment
- to fill open training slots – for example, a qual slot is open but the junior pilot needs an RQ2
- we expect a more junior pilot to be displaced in a subsequent displacement bid"

Notice that first line.. a pilot if NQ'd on his old equipment.

So the company cancels your sim event (which is paid for, by the way.. so no money saved.) and now THEY can use that as an excuse to train out of seniority. Hmm...

Motch

An excuse is not required to train out of seniority.

Are you seriously that insensitive when you know what us double furloughees have been through while you were able to continue working? Guys like me furloughed for 5 years after 9/11, 3.5 years after the financial downturn, had almost every Cal pilot hired through 2008 put in front of us 2000 hires & now on the verge of furlough #3! Please think before making such an insensitive statement such as yours.

Lee.. I'm still breathing! LOL.. thanks.
Trying to figure stuff out as a few junior people have been reaching out. Just for 'opinions'.
But you bring up something that I still can't wrap my head around. Intent to Furlough announcement this week or before the next DB.

Guess this one would be a question for both ALPA Legal but also a civilian labor attorney. Can they give you an Intent to Furlough notice 4 months out? 6 months out? Is there a time frame on the back end like there is on the front end?

Having received a furlough notice before (Continental), I do recall it was 2 or so months out.
Ya think they would send out ItF letters out this week?

I also ran across this,-
https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.c...e/nj-warn-act/

Seems all EWR Pilots would require 90 days notice. Hmm.. but would you do 120+ days notice?

Be well.. sun coming up and time to go outside before the NASCAR Race later~
Always
Motch