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-   -   Displacement award published (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/129781-displacement-award-published.html)

guppie 05-24-2020 09:51 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 3063461)
Outsider just curious what is the new DOH/seniority # approx of the junior systemwide plug CA? What base/equip is that?

seniority 7089. SFO 737 Cap. Jan 2006 Cal hire (Sep 98 UAL equivalent)

Huell 05-25-2020 04:07 AM


Originally Posted by Itsajob (Post 3063299)
He’ll be 90 years old in a nursing home still complaining about the SLI. A LUAL guy who spent years of his longevity on furlough is upset that the arbitrator followed his company’s integration proposal instead of using pure hire date, including inactive years while on furlough. Most people have moved on, some will take it to the grave.

A life of bitterness over something you can't control and therefore can't change will put a few of these types in the grave a bit sooner. No real loss for the rest of us I'm guessing.

If I wanted, I'm sure I could find some things to dwell on ... maybe with bitterness ... but I don't think like that ... I am blessed with what I have and move on and enjoy life.

YMMV

JimLaheyTPS 05-25-2020 05:24 AM

Data point. Early 2015 hire, NQ 756 FO needing full course on my awarded 737 spot and no training date assigned yet.

Charlie Buster 05-25-2020 06:44 AM

Training pilots at 70% seniority
 
Look at CCS staffing reports for June under future award column, awards starting to populate. I sampled various bases NB Ca and 75/777 FO, and the junior man I saw with a future award was a DCA 777FO going to DCA 737FO - CCS seniority 9635, which is right at 70% and is pretty consistent among bases.

duvie 05-25-2020 07:35 AM

Pure speculation ahead:

I think if you see them stop training right at the 70% mark, I take that as evidence of Mr. Kirby playing games. I highly doubt the furloughs will go that deep, I think he is making a point to be consistent with the 30% staffing cut to try and scare people into some sort of contract change/taking leaves. They can continue training the 70 to 85% through the fall and winter to be ready for next summer. It definitely keeps him flexible for both potential up and downturns.

I guess all I am saying is to keep our eye on the prize. I think there is already a consensus on this forum about no concessions (anybody want to open up the MPG debate 😁), but I’m just advocating one more time for any of those people who did not watch the gutting of contracts post 9/11.

UAL97 05-25-2020 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3063616)
Pure speculation ahead:

I think if you see them stop training right at the 70% mark, I take that as evidence of Mr. Kirby playing games. I highly doubt the furloughs will go that deep, I think he is making a point to be consistent with the 30% staffing cut to try and scare people into some sort of contract change/taking leaves.

Bingo! That's the next step in his game. He has mentioned United will make 30% cuts across all departments. He can't show anything other than that number at this point. It could also be posturing in hopes of eventually receiving more government aid. If UAL truly furloughs 30% of the pilot group, watch out for a merger on the other side of this.

Itsajob 05-25-2020 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3063616)
Pure speculation ahead:

I think if you see them stop training right at the 70% mark, I take that as evidence of Mr. Kirby playing games. I highly doubt the furloughs will go that deep, I think he is making a point to be consistent with the 30% staffing cut to try and scare people into some sort of contract change/taking leaves. They can continue training the 70 to 85% through the fall and winter to be ready for next summer. It definitely keeps him flexible for both potential up and downturns.

I guess all I am saying is to keep our eye on the prize. I think there is already a consensus on this forum about no concessions (anybody want to open up the MPG debate 😁), but I’m just advocating one more time for any of those people who did not watch the gutting of contracts post 9/11.

I think that they are just hedging their bet. They seem pretty confident that long haul WB flying will be the slowest to recover, but the big unknown is how fast domestic demand does. I don’t think that they are trying to play games, or put on pressure on us for concessions, they are just trying to position the seniority list to cover many options. If demand is still in the toilet, they can furlough a bunch of people. If demand is showing signs of a steady recovery, more people will be trained and in place for more NB flying. My guess is that both sides are going to be disappointed. They aren’t going to be able to train as fast as they need, and we will be disappointed as to how fast they can actually go. There has been a bunch of movement in the last couple of years. Pilots displacing back to previous equipment will only need a 2 week short course unless they had been off of it for a long time. Others will slow the process. I’m going to get a short course on the 756 and then depending on how many bump me down in round 2, I’ll go to the 320 or 737 long course. There are many others with the same plan which slows down how fast they can train.

Another big factor is the Max. If that thing gets approved it could be the final nail in the coffin for the 757’s. A downturn is a convenient time to park a fleet and train crews on the replacement. The max will do their job domestically, and the demand for the 757 international capabilities aren’t there yet. We may just run fewer LHR trips on bigger planes in the future.

89Pistons 05-25-2020 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3063616)
Pure speculation ahead:

I think if you see them stop training right at the 70% mark, I take that as evidence of Mr. Kirby playing games. I highly doubt the furloughs will go that deep, I think he is making a point to be consistent with the 30% staffing cut to try and scare people into some sort of contract change/taking leaves. They can continue training the 70 to 85% through the fall and winter to be ready for next summer. It definitely keeps him flexible for both potential up and downturns.
.

You might be looking too deep into it.

-We've heard 30% from SK
-We've heard 30% from the P2P video
-On VERY limited data points the training assignments indicate 30% so far (but only 24 hours worth of training notifications)

The METAR, TAF, and ATIS are all painting the same picture so far.

As far as contract changes and scare tactics, that all started before the end of March. Of course they've already asked. LOA 20-01 didn't come out of thin air. It was born with some sort of ask or threat. We're past scare tactic time. Thinking that 30% is just a scare tactic could foster false hope.

We intercept the GS on June 3rd (next week) and cross the FAF on July 3rd. We're not past the point of them asking for something or seeing some sort of other LOA, but we're past playing games time. It's for real.

On the numbers, UAL didn't inflate the number after 9/11 and they didn't inflate it in 08. On both they came in +/- 200 folks. The 30% isn't official yet but whatever number they announce will be the number they really intend to furlough.


Add: Possible early out's one June 1 and voluntary furloughs could help the current 9656 number.

ERJFO 05-25-2020 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3063161)
You received some good replies, so I won't pile on. I will however politely suggest that you have quite a bit more to learn about the airline bidness as it applies to labor.

You could start here...

https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-...0350434&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Splash-Colors...0350502&sr=8-1

And On Wooden Wings, or From Wooden Wings, I can't recall.

It's been posted a thousand times in the last 40 years, we could work for FREE, and they'd still furlough pilots at will and go out of business. The question becomes, do you want to do what you do now, for LESS until the lock they doors? I know I don't. It won't change the date.

They live like pigs and torch us for every cent from one contract to the next. Then when times are bad they expect the peons to refloat the ship just long enough for them to invent a new round of bonuses. And this even when they are the ones who rammed us up onto the shoal. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

They need a loan? Fine, let's talk about the repayment schedule and terms. Absent that, pound sand.

I've read the books. I went though 2001 and 2008. I just have a different perspective now.

JimLaheyTPS 05-25-2020 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by Charlie Buster (Post 3063577)
Look at CCS staffing reports for June under future award column, awards starting to populate. I sampled various bases NB Ca and 75/777 FO, and the junior man I saw with a future award was a DCA 777FO going to DCA 737FO - CCS seniority 9635, which is right at 70% and is pretty consistent among bases.

Does the report show what the actual training date is or just that training has been assigned?


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