Fair statement. But the point remains valid that the amount of time and effort guys are wasting on rumors is just incredible.

Cmon, we're pilots. BSing is what we do best.

But as long as I have been at U, the rumors have proven to be eerily accurate. And that's what scares me.

Just got this....

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Delta expects to avoid widespread furloughs after huge push into early retirement packages

Sep. 15, 2020 10:47 AM ET|About: Delta Air Lines, Inc. (DAL)|By: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor Delta Air Lines (DAL +2.7%) will avoid furloughing flight attendants and ground workers other than pilots, according to a memo sent by CEO Ed Bastian.

The airline was able to avoid the involuntary actions by pushing close to 20% of its workforce into early retirement and departure packages.

Bastian says Delta has effectively managed its staffing between now and the start of peak summer 2021 travel, but the company still supports an extension of government aid.

Earlier this month, Delta disclosed that its daily cash burn rate is down to about $27M.

Either (save money) or possibly the goal is to (maximize profit) on the backside if recovery is quick. Either way, yes the company cares about bottom line more than pilots. I understand past behavior conditioning people’s perspective. We’ll see Wed if we can live with the cost and if the company’s goals are close enough to being in line with ours.

One thing I know is that the house ALWAYS wins over time. Maybe other airlines choices (shrink to profit) will pay the UAL house instead of pilots this time? Maybe naive on my part, just another possibility.

Respectfully, the issue is simple. Massive revenue loss still and continued projections even with a vaccine. Plain and simple. It's neither the union nor the company that is causing this. Both institutions are trying to figure out how to move forward with massive constraints and limitations. Information and projections on travel and even vaccine release changes daily. The best course of action is Do not trust anyone. Unity can be a dangerous thing. Just because the you vote for elected reps doesn't make it right they they have their position, in fact it's actually kind of an unfair system. Make sure you are watching out for yourself first in these times, and sorry to anyone junior you need to pay your dues. This will be a good learning experience for you. It is as important as ever to protect seniority, even if that means failing to come to any mitigation. Protect seniority even if it means we all functionally go down 2900 numbers before the end of the year, as long as nobody else gets the granola bar that you could have had. I know it sounds silly but its true. Defend the contract and expense as much dry cleaning as possible to show the company what is important to us.

with all due respect, you vote how you want, I’ll vote how I want.

Delta always rewards the non-union types on the property when they can ... to keep them non-union.

Mako, et al: I honestly and completely understand why you want to vote no categorically and loudly to send a message to the company. You guys were screwed bigger than almost any group of employees in the last few decades. That said, please understand that many of us care and/or are affected by United’s ability to recover from this. It matters a lot to some of us whether it’s an 8000 pilot airline with great margins, or a 13,000 pilot airline with moderate margins.

Your fears of the company having better lawyers than the union are obviously founded, but I think the union email expresses best what many of us feel. The contract is either in place or it’s not. We are either in bankruptcy, or we are not. The company cannot simply ignore random provisions in our UPA. I personally am willing to gamble that Scott Kirby wants to run one of the largest airlines in the world. He is not a Smisek, Bastian, Tilton or whomever.

I personally think the real message of the union email this morning was: if you don’t want to give up 10 to 20% of your guarantee to help a furloughee, so be it. That is totally your prerogative and most of the pilots who were in that position have an understandable desire to make as much money as I can before they retire. I’m OK taking less days of work each month to keep people on property. I think the important thing is to vote your conscience not based on a fear of things that have a very small likelihood of coming to pass, but On things that are certainly going to happen.

to me the most salient point of all of this, is that the company is taking a gamble as well. This is not a one-sided concession or us “helping” them out. The fact that they have offered some thing that is (short term) cash negative and manpower positive is indicative that they do not want to cede market share. If someone else does not have the same appetite for the risk, I totally get it and they should vote NO. I personally Will be more focused on the contractual provisions we gain and the mechanisms for achieving more gains through specific metrics, not my take-home pay for the next year. Those are my personal criteria and I completely respect that other people have very different values and objectives about this airline/their career

To be an effective plant for management, you have to be more subtle.

If you think that this rumored aip costs the company less then furlouging 5k people you need to recalculate. Its not even in the same realm.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

Totally opposite. I am not management, I am your virtual MEC Chairman. Fact - 97% of the pilot group supports me in my vision and I am no friend of management. That is a much higher percentage of support than most elections, and it means a lot going into these dark times. Also everyone, don't make fun of my Juno account please. It is very disrespectful. And it's a group account anyway, my two BFF's have access, and we respond as one, so if you make fun of me you are making fun of the other two as well, and that's not fair to them.