Agreement in Principle
09-15-2020 | 05:29 PM
#551
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 4
From: Left Seat
Mako, et al: I honestly and completely understand why you want to vote no categorically and loudly to send a message to the company. You guys were screwed bigger than almost any group of employees in the last few decades. That said, please understand that many of us care and/or are affected by United’s ability to recover from this. It matters a lot to some of us whether it’s an 8000 pilot airline with great margins, or a 13,000 pilot airline with moderate margins.
Your fears of the company having better lawyers than the union are obviously founded, but I think the union email expresses best what many of us feel. The contract is either in place or it’s not. We are either in bankruptcy, or we are not. The company cannot simply ignore random provisions in our UPA. I personally am willing to gamble that Scott Kirby wants to run one of the largest airlines in the world. He is not a Smisek, Bastian, Tilton or whomever.
I personally think the real message of the union email this morning was: if you don’t want to give up 10 to 20% of your guarantee to help a furloughee, so be it. That is totally your prerogative and most of the pilots who were in that position have an understandable desire to make as much money as I can before they retire. I’m OK taking less days of work each month to keep people on property. I think the important thing is to vote your conscience not based on a fear of things that have a very small likelihood of coming to pass, but On things that are certainly going to happen.
to me the most salient point of all of this, is that the company is taking a gamble as well. This is not a one-sided concession or us “helping” them out. The fact that they have offered some thing that is (short term) cash negative and manpower positive is indicative that they do not want to cede market share. If someone else does not have the same appetite for the risk, I totally get it and they should vote NO. I personally Will be more focused on the contractual provisions we gain and the mechanisms for achieving more gains through specific metrics, not my take-home pay for the next year. Those are my personal criteria and I completely respect that other people have very different values and objectives about this airline/their career
Your fears of the company having better lawyers than the union are obviously founded, but I think the union email expresses best what many of us feel. The contract is either in place or it’s not. We are either in bankruptcy, or we are not. The company cannot simply ignore random provisions in our UPA. I personally am willing to gamble that Scott Kirby wants to run one of the largest airlines in the world. He is not a Smisek, Bastian, Tilton or whomever.
I personally think the real message of the union email this morning was: if you don’t want to give up 10 to 20% of your guarantee to help a furloughee, so be it. That is totally your prerogative and most of the pilots who were in that position have an understandable desire to make as much money as I can before they retire. I’m OK taking less days of work each month to keep people on property. I think the important thing is to vote your conscience not based on a fear of things that have a very small likelihood of coming to pass, but On things that are certainly going to happen.
to me the most salient point of all of this, is that the company is taking a gamble as well. This is not a one-sided concession or us “helping” them out. The fact that they have offered some thing that is (short term) cash negative and manpower positive is indicative that they do not want to cede market share. If someone else does not have the same appetite for the risk, I totally get it and they should vote NO. I personally Will be more focused on the contractual provisions we gain and the mechanisms for achieving more gains through specific metrics, not my take-home pay for the next year. Those are my personal criteria and I completely respect that other people have very different values and objectives about this airline/their career
You were right about that bad track record...
09-15-2020 | 05:34 PM
#552
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 4
From: Left Seat
Totally opposite. I am not management, I am your virtual MEC Chairman. Fact - 97% of the pilot group supports me in my vision and I am no friend of management. That is a much higher percentage of support than most elections, and it means a lot going into these dark times. Also everyone, don't make fun of my Juno account please. It is very disrespectful. And it's a group account anyway, my two BFF's have access, and we respond as one, so if you make fun of me you are making fun of the other two as well, and that's not fair to them.
09-15-2020 | 06:22 PM
#554
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Of course, as you should if it makes you feel better. But I will tell you now that it doesn't matter. This vote is absolutely not about furlough mitigation, it's a necessary vote for regime change, and I am certain I've already won. I think I have enough no votes in my followers to cause enough dissent to get the rightful members of our tribe back to where they belong, and don't mind starting the victory lap a little early~~~ it feels really good to be coming back. I chuckle a little when some of you say you're going to wait to see that text. Please wake up and realize that...is only you and your side that cares about the text, and it's your main disadvantage. Me and my troopers don't need to see the text, and never needed to. I only needed the text to leak it, or parts of it...or my slightly version of parts of it. Although I'm well aware of what is actually in the text and what versions were leaked, and guess what - it doesn't matter. We have enough no votes secured to finally be able to get the right people where they need to be. This is just me doing the Charleston a little while I watch my horse cross the finish line.
You want proof? Ok - I actually thought the SRL's were a pretty good deal for the group, and thought the company overplayed their hand a little. Anything seem odd to you about how a large number of us reacted? Us 3 musketeers were able to get people to generate lots and lots of noise about how bad of a deal they were through our various techniques, and eventually a contagious sense of xenophobia. Consider that my trial run, and it was fantastic. I have limited impact on the silly forum that prevents my right to free speech and privacy, but it's ok, because enough of you realize my vision though my reading list and through our network here and on FB to infect the voice over there. Go back and look at the misplaced and premature hysteria that we were able to generate with just a few dabblers, and that was with the company paying people most of their paycheck to sit home or get a chance to try a new job or two before the real bad times hit. Even you who recognized or suspected what was going on didn't realize how many minds I was winning over. So sit back, relax, and watch as so many of us legitimately say we are going to be a no vote despite what drops. We are strong, and we are the face of the group moving forward. But if you want the real lesson, I want you to notice how many people you noticed virtually seem to nod their heads at my logic and join us. The seeds were planted and bloomed beautifully. Such is my magic, and your vote - yes or no - will not change anything at this point. You can probably see how many supporters I have signed up working to communicate the cause. If you want to join, get in touch. You know how to reach us, and we can use more people to help the cause, especially if you don't mind doing a little bit of internet opinionizin' on the group's behalf group in your free time.
But know that when I am in charge the company is going to pay tremendously for every minute of our labor, and we will return to the good old days. We will live rightfully as kings, and will receive the highest pay the industry has ever seen, COVID or not. I will absolutely guarantee right now that we will at the very least double our pay scales within 1 year of my election. Tallyhoe!
You want proof? Ok - I actually thought the SRL's were a pretty good deal for the group, and thought the company overplayed their hand a little. Anything seem odd to you about how a large number of us reacted? Us 3 musketeers were able to get people to generate lots and lots of noise about how bad of a deal they were through our various techniques, and eventually a contagious sense of xenophobia. Consider that my trial run, and it was fantastic. I have limited impact on the silly forum that prevents my right to free speech and privacy, but it's ok, because enough of you realize my vision though my reading list and through our network here and on FB to infect the voice over there. Go back and look at the misplaced and premature hysteria that we were able to generate with just a few dabblers, and that was with the company paying people most of their paycheck to sit home or get a chance to try a new job or two before the real bad times hit. Even you who recognized or suspected what was going on didn't realize how many minds I was winning over. So sit back, relax, and watch as so many of us legitimately say we are going to be a no vote despite what drops. We are strong, and we are the face of the group moving forward. But if you want the real lesson, I want you to notice how many people you noticed virtually seem to nod their heads at my logic and join us. The seeds were planted and bloomed beautifully. Such is my magic, and your vote - yes or no - will not change anything at this point. You can probably see how many supporters I have signed up working to communicate the cause. If you want to join, get in touch. You know how to reach us, and we can use more people to help the cause, especially if you don't mind doing a little bit of internet opinionizin' on the group's behalf group in your free time.
But know that when I am in charge the company is going to pay tremendously for every minute of our labor, and we will return to the good old days. We will live rightfully as kings, and will receive the highest pay the industry has ever seen, COVID or not. I will absolutely guarantee right now that we will at the very least double our pay scales within 1 year of my election. Tallyhoe!
09-15-2020 | 07:33 PM
#556
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 859
Likes: 0
Of course, as you should if it makes you feel better. But I will tell you now that it doesn't matter. This vote is absolutely not about furlough mitigation, it's a necessary vote for regime change, and I am certain I've already won. I think I have enough no votes in my followers to cause enough dissent to get the rightful members of our tribe back to where they belong, and don't mind starting the victory lap a little early~~~ it feels really good to be coming back. I chuckle a little when some of you say you're going to wait to see that text. Please wake up and realize that...is only you and your side that cares about the text, and it's your main disadvantage. Me and my troopers don't need to see the text, and never needed to. I only needed the text to leak it, or parts of it...or my slightly version of parts of it. Although I'm well aware of what is actually in the text and what versions were leaked, and guess what - it doesn't matter. We have enough no votes secured to finally be able to get the right people where they need to be. This is just me doing the Charleston a little while I watch my horse cross the finish line.
You want proof? Ok - I actually thought the SRL's were a pretty good deal for the group, and thought the company overplayed their hand a little. Anything seem odd to you about how a large number of us reacted? Us 3 musketeers were able to get people to generate lots and lots of noise about how bad of a deal they were through our various techniques, and eventually a contagious sense of xenophobia. Consider that my trial run, and it was fantastic. I have limited impact on the silly forum that prevents my right to free speech and privacy, but it's ok, because enough of you realize my vision though my reading list and through our network here and on FB to infect the voice over there. Go back and look at the misplaced and premature hysteria that we were able to generate with just a few dabblers, and that was with the company paying people most of their paycheck to sit home or get a chance to try a new job or two before the real bad times hit. Even you who recognized or suspected what was going on didn't realize how many minds I was winning over. So sit back, relax, and watch as so many of us legitimately say we are going to be a no vote despite what drops. We are strong, and we are the face of the group moving forward. But if you want the real lesson, I want you to notice how many people you noticed virtually seem to nod their heads at my logic and join us. The seeds were planted and bloomed beautifully. Such is my magic, and your vote - yes or no - will not change anything at this point. You can probably see how many supporters I have signed up working to communicate the cause. If you want to join, get in touch. You know how to reach us, and we can use more people to help the cause, especially if you don't mind doing a little bit of internet opinionizin' on the group's behalf group in your free time.
But know that when I am in charge the company is going to pay tremendously for every minute of our labor, and we will return to the good old days. We will live rightfully as kings, and will receive the highest pay the industry has ever seen, COVID or not. I will absolutely guarantee right now that we will at the very least double our pay scales within 1 year of my election. Tallyhoe!
You want proof? Ok - I actually thought the SRL's were a pretty good deal for the group, and thought the company overplayed their hand a little. Anything seem odd to you about how a large number of us reacted? Us 3 musketeers were able to get people to generate lots and lots of noise about how bad of a deal they were through our various techniques, and eventually a contagious sense of xenophobia. Consider that my trial run, and it was fantastic. I have limited impact on the silly forum that prevents my right to free speech and privacy, but it's ok, because enough of you realize my vision though my reading list and through our network here and on FB to infect the voice over there. Go back and look at the misplaced and premature hysteria that we were able to generate with just a few dabblers, and that was with the company paying people most of their paycheck to sit home or get a chance to try a new job or two before the real bad times hit. Even you who recognized or suspected what was going on didn't realize how many minds I was winning over. So sit back, relax, and watch as so many of us legitimately say we are going to be a no vote despite what drops. We are strong, and we are the face of the group moving forward. But if you want the real lesson, I want you to notice how many people you noticed virtually seem to nod their heads at my logic and join us. The seeds were planted and bloomed beautifully. Such is my magic, and your vote - yes or no - will not change anything at this point. You can probably see how many supporters I have signed up working to communicate the cause. If you want to join, get in touch. You know how to reach us, and we can use more people to help the cause, especially if you don't mind doing a little bit of internet opinionizin' on the group's behalf group in your free time.
But know that when I am in charge the company is going to pay tremendously for every minute of our labor, and we will return to the good old days. We will live rightfully as kings, and will receive the highest pay the industry has ever seen, COVID or not. I will absolutely guarantee right now that we will at the very least double our pay scales within 1 year of my election. Tallyhoe!
Don't you have a squadron mate to apologize to or are you busy with the details from crashing into another falcon right now?
09-15-2020 | 07:44 PM
#557
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Same Day, 1/2 Pay
before we go to far down a legacy rabbit hole, let’s just look at what Smisek did, and how many years it took new management to undo his shrink-to-profitability MO.
You definitely want to be the one leading, not the one chasing. I think that is the sentiment many of us who have been in the industry for two decades + feel
You definitely want to be the one leading, not the one chasing. I think that is the sentiment many of us who have been in the industry for two decades + feel
I agree with you that you want to be leading not chasing. Unfortunately, our management is third rate at best.
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