I have November vacation time. It's paying 3:15 per day, just like the contract states. So that's false information; reread and post the section of the LOA you're referring to.

 

Your first three sentences are pure conjecture and guesses based on no concrete evidence. The rest of your post is very true.

 

I believe he laid out a pretty solid case pre-vote. Of course your mind was already made up and no additional facts or inconvenient truths were going to prevent you from saving us....

Anyway here’s his point that’s well summarized which explains the pay cut related to vacation factor at 2:20.....

“2:20.

Why did the vacation credit stay at 2:20? Does anyone know where the 2:20 came from? It's 70 hour MPG divided by 30 days in the month, = 2:20.



That's where the pilots are paying for this agreement, 2:20.



A 60 hour MPG should have a vacation credit of 2:00 not 2:20 and so on. Why did it stay at 2:20? So how does/can affect you and how does it affect me? Good Question! So I looked back at my last vacation month and here is what I found out. I a senior narrowbody F/O.





My August 2020:



No days of work, 8 days off, 22 days of vacation, Vac add pay = 71:30, MPG = 18:40, Total pay =90:10



70 MPG - ( 22 days X 2:20) = 18:40



Any potential month of 2021 with 60 hour MPG:



No days of work, 8 days off, 22 days of vacation, Vac add pay = 71:30, MPG = 8:40, Total pay = 80:10



60 MPG - (22 days X 2:20) = 8:40



Vacation paid the same but my pay went down by 10 hours. How can that be? Is it magic? No, it's a function of MPG. That's a 10 hour pay cut, not a work reduction. Plain and simple. I am still working the same number of days (zero) and I haven't gained any days off. Does this TA affect the vacation you are due? NO. Can this TA affect how vacation is paid out? YES. Will it affect everyone? No. Will it affect you? Do your due diligence and find out.



Now I sent an email to TI yesterday about this and I heard back pretty quickly from a high up on the SSC who said yes I am correct and that I am in the 10% who actually understands how this works. Well, why not explain this to the 90% then? Today I got another email from a 2nd person on the SSC so I guess my email really hit a nerve. This person said yes it will affect you, and it will affect more people if this TA is passed. I don't know if you are one of those (generally speaking) but it might be worth it to try this math yourself at your projected MPG.



I believe UALALPA has strong tradition of helping out pilots not only on the UAL list but other displaced ALPA pilots. I was one of them. As a 727 FE I sat behind a number of ex-Eastern types who were happy to get this chance at United late in life, even though they may never make captain. I believe this MEC in keeping that tradition had great intentions of helping potential furloughees. But implications of this TA are not fully understood and to call the MPG factor on vacation pay "fake news" just exposes ignorance. Do your due diligence THEN vote.

And yes, realize yes some of us are taking paycuts NOT just "work reductions".

Best wishes to us all!”

 

Pull up November's line awards. Look for someone with vacation. They're being paid at 3:15 per day.

 

Did you read the post above or are you the one on drugs and not properly processing logic? It’s not an argument about vacation add pay paying 3:15. It’s the 2:20 factor they use in line values when building pbs. I can see why this ta was an easy sell to guys like you. Details didn’t matter....

 

I will be polite and just say you are wrong. I warned pilots on this forum about it before the vote. Yes vacation time "still pays 3:15 per day" but because the 2:20 vacation factor for a 70 hour MPG did not change, pay during a vacation month will go down with no change in number of days of work. Maybe not for all pilots, how many pilots I don't know. For me yes, because I understand the contract, sat down and ran the numbers. I would highly suggest you do the same. Maybe you wont see a paycut in your vacation month. That would be great - but then you can thank me for giving up 20 hours of pay for my two vacation months next year because it nails me.

I even brought it to the attention of the MEC and in an email reply they said "yes you are right" and basically most pilots don't understand how this vacation compensation works. They knew that pilots have a weak understanding of this section of our contract and boy was it exploited and kept quiet. Again, that's where we are paying for this LOA.

Run the numbers and let us know how it turns out. Everyone should, so we have a better understanding of this.

 

Yes my August line award showed 71:30 all of it vacation credit. However, my pay (because of MPG and 2:20) on my pay advice, without any flying, was for 90:17.

Next year it will show 80:17.

Friendly advice: stop digging.

 

Oh they’ll keep digging. I’ll beat them to their retort. “But that’s only one month out of the year.” “10 hours...big deal.” “If you don’t like it you’re senior enough you can pick up a 20 hour trip and all’s well. You’ll be back at 90 hours.” And so on.

 

FYI
15 days vacation November 48.45 hours add pay
6 days reserve and 24.20 MPG for a total of 73 hours almost

25 days off and 6 reserve days out of 31 day month

 

Reserve vs. line. 2 different calculations. Another example of the misunderstanding in how this all works. But hey - you got 25 days off with 73 hours of pay. Well done. This new LoA rocks!!!! Can’t wait ‘til we get to vote to extend it!!!