American Adrift
02-25-2023 | 08:30 AM
#21
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1,592
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From: 787 FO
02-25-2023 | 10:34 AM
#22
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,541
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From: Head pillow fluffer, Assistant bed maker
I disagree. The contract just needs to be good enough. Being #2 is fully sufficient. There is no need to lean in more than necessary. UA has no issues filling classes even with the current subpar contract.
what we will see is matching or better pay rates than DAL because that is very transparent and measurable. But the new contract will be severely lacking in QoL improvements. Roll back of the Tumi 1 debacle plus some minor gives somewhere else is all we will see.
what we will see is matching or better pay rates than DAL because that is very transparent and measurable. But the new contract will be severely lacking in QoL improvements. Roll back of the Tumi 1 debacle plus some minor gives somewhere else is all we will see.
02-25-2023 | 10:44 AM
#23
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 9
UAL will have no issues filling seats as long as the contract is generally recognized as #2 or #3 in the industry. Lots of shiny new WB jet syndrome and fleet diversity points.
WN has issues because of ping upgrade times
if anyone AA will have issues before UA and I don’t think they do.
it is ludicrous to assume that you have to be #1 or go bust.
I also don’t think that Kirby will keep stalling.
he will counter with a proposal that is “good enough” - basically another extension with slightly improved but still subpar work rules and new competitive rates - but far from industry leading and we will take it.
Last edited by TFAYD; 02-25-2023 at 11:16 AM.
02-25-2023 | 12:07 PM
#24
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 0
From: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
I didn’t miss the point.
UAL will have no issues filling seats as long as the contract is generally recognized as #2 or #3 in the industry. Lots of shiny new WB jet syndrome and fleet diversity points.
WN has issues because of ping upgrade times
if anyone AA will have issues before UA and I don’t think they do.
it is ludicrous to assume that you have to be #1 or go bust.
I also don’t think that Kirby will keep stalling.
he will counter with a proposal that is “good enough” - basically another extension with slightly improved but still subpar work rules and new competitive rates - but far from industry leading and we will take it.
UAL will have no issues filling seats as long as the contract is generally recognized as #2 or #3 in the industry. Lots of shiny new WB jet syndrome and fleet diversity points.
WN has issues because of ping upgrade times
if anyone AA will have issues before UA and I don’t think they do.
it is ludicrous to assume that you have to be #1 or go bust.
I also don’t think that Kirby will keep stalling.
he will counter with a proposal that is “good enough” - basically another extension with slightly improved but still subpar work rules and new competitive rates - but far from industry leading and we will take it.
02-25-2023 | 04:54 PM
#26
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
If I was a major airline CEO (full disclosure....Im not) and I wanted to have the biggest bestest airline and looking a shrinking supply of pilots, what would I do? I think I would let the other major airline pass a TA and then find a way to leapfrog it considerably. For example, if that airline had a pay rate snap up, I would exceed the pay rates by a small amount, but say make a day worth 10 hours. Would require to bid on flight time rather than credit time, but now instead of working 13 days for 75 hours of pay, it becomes 130 hours of pay. (using 10 hours for easy math) This would blow the doors off the other airline and virtually all pilots would want to come to my airline instead of the other airline (unless, perhaps one lived in say, ATL)
02-26-2023 | 06:52 PM
#28
Banned
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 149
LaxtoDen
Normally I would agree however so far we have been paying cash. Will this continue I have no idea but I believe most of the airplanes this year are cash with some financing.
we will see….also the 737 deal was apparently buy 1 get 2 because we had Max issues (like everyone and the 777) so the deal for all the airplanes over next few years is valued around 13B vs the industry normal would have been 17B.(I read that somewhere shortly after they announced the order).
time will tell but in reality the only thing I truly care about is a contract.
Normally I would agree however so far we have been paying cash. Will this continue I have no idea but I believe most of the airplanes this year are cash with some financing.
we will see….also the 737 deal was apparently buy 1 get 2 because we had Max issues (like everyone and the 777) so the deal for all the airplanes over next few years is valued around 13B vs the industry normal would have been 17B.(I read that somewhere shortly after they announced the order).
time will tell but in reality the only thing I truly care about is a contract.
For the record I know the math. Manufactures don’t make money selling the airplanes. They make money taking care of them for 30 years.
02-27-2023 | 04:12 AM
#29
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: A320 FO
I’m not sure if you read the entire post but I said I read that in an article, I believe it was seeking alpha. So not my math….can’t show the work….left a few comments in the post to attempt to show my skepticism of how good the deal actually was but no matter how you look at the deal they have been paying cash for airplanes so far and I think in the 3q results said the bulk of 2023 deliveries would be cash with some financing. Hope that clears it up for you.
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